To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

This is for anything with regards to reptiles which is not species specific or over a broad band of reptiles. Be it husbandry, caging, etc. you can post it here.

Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby armata » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:36 pm

I can only repeat the quote from the late James Ashe

"If you are contemplating keeping venomous snakes, give it careful thought; then reject the idea".
' I get my kicks on Route 62 '
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby bubblesharp » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:43 am

Thank you to all that have posted, especially the pictures. I have been thinking about a few venomous snakes too keep. Banded rock Rattler, gaboon adder, i have looked at a few vipers also, there is just something about the shape of that head.

Well I must thank you because I realize that I would rather just like to go and look at them at other reptile parks etc. My son will undoubtedly oneday manage to get the cage open and I cannot live with that. On a previous post in another topic I told of how I caught my first rinkals, he was a small one about 35-40cm long, I was only 7-9 years old, such a long time ago. Any way I was extremely lucky I had it in my room in an empty fishtank with a piece of cardboard on for about a week, before one of my dads friends came over and I took it out to show them. Well it was the first time my parents saw it and we were informed that it was a rinkals. It didn't even dawn on me hoe lucky I was until a few years later when I only realized how dangerous they can be.
I have watched how countless Mozambique cobra, and Rinkals, and a lot of non venomous snakes were killed because of ignorance, and I have decided that my children will grow up with the truth about these animals and not the fears of the old.
I have now also decided that it will for now be better to teach them using non venomous snakes and other reptiles. :)
And to armata, the words of wisdom. I will follow thee.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby fuscusV2 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:56 pm

Here's my issue with amateurs keeping hots and in particular exotics. There should be municipal bylaws banning keeping exotic hots in particular without written consent of your neighbours. Amateur keepers don't only get bitten, they also lose speicmens. It's unfair on your neighbours to not be told what you are up to.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby it_bit_me » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:26 pm

fuscusV2 wrote:There should be municipal bylaws banning keeping exotic hots in particular without written consent of your neighbours.

Then I wouldn't be able to keep snakes. :smt017
If I'm gonna be an old, lonely man, I'm gonna need a thing, you know, a hook, like that guy on the subway who eats his own face. So I figure I'll be Crazy Man with a Snake, y'know. Crazy Snake Man. And I'll get more snakes, call them my babies, kids won't walk past my place, they will run. "Run away from Crazy Snake Man, " they'll shout!”
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby armata » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:48 pm

You have to have written permission from your neighbours here in the WC.
' I get my kicks on Route 62 '
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby fuscusV2 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:37 pm

it_bit_me wrote:
fuscusV2 wrote:There should be municipal bylaws banning keeping exotic hots in particular without written consent of your neighbours.

Then I wouldn't be able to keep snakes. :smt017

You're an amateur keeping exotic hots without your neighbour's knowing? Next Q - what happens when you lose a specimen and your neighbour is tagged?
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby it_bit_me » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:44 pm

Good question but they dont think about the neighbour two doors down. Stupid rule in my opinion.
How am I suppose to hand over my snake because I moved 2 blocks down and can't get a permit anymore?
If I'm gonna be an old, lonely man, I'm gonna need a thing, you know, a hook, like that guy on the subway who eats his own face. So I figure I'll be Crazy Man with a Snake, y'know. Crazy Snake Man. And I'll get more snakes, call them my babies, kids won't walk past my place, they will run. "Run away from Crazy Snake Man, " they'll shout!”
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Marion » Sat Apr 09, 2011 8:37 pm

I have been looking at this site and the posts from people who keep snakes and I have also wondered what on earth people want dangerous snakes for!! Sorry guys - I know a lot of you know exactly what you are doing, but the idea of keeping dangerous snakes in my home scares the c....p out of me! I have never seen the attraction of being suicidal everytime you walk into a room. I love snakes but there is not a chance in hell that I would keep poisonous ones.

Reptiles are some of the most beautifully marked creatures on earth but I say let's keep the dangerous ones away from our families and in the wild where they belong. I think it's more dangerous to keep such an animal than it is having a loaded gun sitting on the mantle-piece. I know I'm opening a can or worms now and I also know that many of you know exactly what you are doing. It's the stupid irresponsible people that really scare me. I think we should have extremely stringent laws in place before someone can walk into a pet shop and buy a venomous snake. After all - we need training and safes to be allowed to own a firearm - why not the same rules for collectors of venomous snakes?? Actually even stricter rules should apply - when has anyone have a gun launch itself at them from across the room?
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby shamroth » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:27 pm

A loaded gun and a venomous snake are not the same thing, and saying that a snake is going to 'launch itself across a room' to get you is idiotic. Just like some people like the shapes and colours of lizards or corn snakes, others like cobra's or vipers, and barring some for whom venomous snakes are a status symbol, most keep them due to that being their specific interest. And we should all have the freedom to keep what we like, as long as we do take precautions. No sane keeper would have a dangerous snake lying around like a gun on a mantlepiece, they should always be safely locked away. And yes we do need some rules for those who do do that sort of thing. Having to get permission from your neighbours I don't agree with. In the western cape you require permits and it would be just as easy putting the effort into updating the requirements for an escape proof room for dangerous snakes rather than leaving what you can keep down to neighbours, which may be scared and probably ignorant.
Another point is that while you need written permission for any venomous snake, you need no consent for a 6m python. Quite a double standard.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby fuscusV2 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:17 am

I think the problem is you may indeed be responsible, but you are likely in the minority.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby fuscusV2 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:20 am

it_bit_me wrote:Good question but they dont think about the neighbour two doors down. Stupid rule in my opinion.
How am I suppose to hand over my snake because I moved 2 blocks down and can't get a permit anymore?

1) Forget about yourself for a change, realise that what you do affects the people around you and they have a right to know. While killing snakes out of fear is not warranted, phobias around snakes are not uncommon and I just think it's common courtesy at the very minimum to afford your neighbour the opportunity to object. Just because you don't fear them and feel comfortable doesn't mean your neighbour shares your sentiment.

Not having a go at you, just stating fact - they may just have an interest in knowing.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Daimondbck » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:34 am

How many stats are there of a neighbor actually being bitten by an escaped venomous specimen? There are Rinkhals, snouties, Cape Cobra`s, Moz spitters all around us everyday from the farm right up to your own backyard, and how many people actually see them, your neighbors have more chance of an encounter with these snakes than your escaped venomous! Permits and all these regs will never deter anyone from keeping hots, how many people are out there that actually have permits for some indigenous species that they keep? Some don`t even know that they require said permits! What will you do when your neighbor objects, move somewhere else? It is a good idea but not quite practical, 99% of your neighbors will not really like the idea! The responsibility remains with the keeper of these snakes to adhere to protocols and make sure that these creatures do not escape!
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Marion » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:13 am

Shamroth I do agree that a snake is not the same as a gun but you need a safe, lessons to use a gun and a licence to keep one. I get the feeling any idiot can obtain a venomous snake - without the permit and expertise. I have no doubt that there are many collectors that are deadly serious about safety, but accidents do happen. It's the inexperienced, macho man I worry about. I have no problem with serious collectors keeping them - it's just not for me. I'm far too chicken!! I'm really glad to see from the posts that everyone on the forum takes this subject seriously.

With the way this planet is going, in 20 or 30 years, collectors like us may be the only access our children and grandchildren have to some species. Many people think I have a screw loose because I keep lizards, and that upsets me - the same as comments may upset serious collectors of other reptiles. We are never going to stop the keeping of venomous reptiles, and I wouldn't want to be told what I am allowed to keep in my own home anyway, nor would I stop anyone from keeping reptiles in theirs. The point I was actually trying to make is that there are far too many irresponsible people in this world, and those are the ones that give us all a bad name in the herp community.

I sell my beardies and I once had a woman tell me she wanted to buy one. After a short chat she asked me "what is a bearded dragon?" I mean - talk about stupid! I explained it to her, showed her where to look on the internet and told her to go somewhere else. So it's the ignorant people that worry me.
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Boadicea » Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:58 pm

This post is a good idea.

The most important question someone wanting to keep a hot should ask themselves is "Why". Why a hot - especially if you have never kept a snake before but even if you have kept non-venomous. There is no such thing in my mind as a "graduation" to keeping a hot. To me it is more a case of keeping two completely different types of animal for two completely different sets of reasons.

I keep non-venomous because I am a very tactile person and like to be able to touch the snakes with my bare hands. I like to feel their skin, feel them singing (or purring if you prefer) and feel their muscular strength. They are incredibly sensuous as they move in your hands and you can't help but love them. In other words I want to interact with them physically. The different scale patterns, habits and shapes of the different species of non-venomous as well as their behaviour and individual idiosyncracies make each one a pleasure to keep.

On the other hand I keep certain hots because I think they are beautiful and elegant or I love their different personalities (I have a charming young Asian spitter who is just the cutest most alert little bossy boots ever). Cobras are alert, agile, nervous snakes that can engage in some heavy breathing when they feel threatened. I sometimes find them very comical (from behind the glass of course). Gaboons on the other hand don't move much but are just stunningly beautiful. Rattlesnakes are interesting because of their telltale warning signal. Rattlesnakes in my observation are also intelligent and aware. They sit there figuring things out. Venomous snakes are a pleasure to observe (i.e. the senses involved here are visual and aural only). They are for personal display only. Showing off a venomous snake to your friends or family does not make you brave, clever or some kind of an elitist. Taking it out of its viv to show off just makes you stupid and sooner or later dead or disabled.

I do not keep hots for the 'wow' factor or to impress other people. In fact I seldom allow anyone else, even interested family members, into my snake rooms. I do not brag about the hots I keep and I don't post photographs of them just to show I keep hots. I suspect that in the case of many people who want to buy a hot, if you said to them "okay you can keep a hot but you are not allowed to show it to anybody or tell anyone about it" they will say "No thanks".
"You and I wear the dangerous looseness of doom and find it becoming. Life, for eternal us, is now; and now is much too busy being a little more than everything to seem anything, catastrophic included"- e e cummings
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Re: To all Potential Venomous snake enthusiasts

Postby Boadicea » Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:07 pm

Oh and for all of you who think that laws will solve the problem, I tell you as a lawyer that they just make life miserable for people who are responsible citizens - the gun laws being a case in point. I gave up my gun because I couldn't be bothered with all the hoi polloi associated with getting a permit so now I am a vulnerable, unprotected woman living alone with no defence against a lawless waste of human skin who couldn't care less about gun laws.
I do however love my snakes for their ;-) 'witchcraft' value.
"You and I wear the dangerous looseness of doom and find it becoming. Life, for eternal us, is now; and now is much too busy being a little more than everything to seem anything, catastrophic included"- e e cummings
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