Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby Vegasbilly » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:06 am

Hello, I just joined this forum tonight and am hoping someone can help with the following scenario:

Every time I introduce my pair of Ground Boas the male eventually bites and constricts the female...she would be dead if I was not there to break them apart! This started last year and has continued into this breeding season. The only change is he is now actively spurring her for maybe 20 minutes before eventually biting and constricting her. Her reaction to his presence is to flee constantly. They are for sure a sexed pair. The male will void, arch his entire body easily 12" up the sides of the cage. Last year I thought maybe she was still too young and that another year of growth/maturity would solve this issue. I did procure an additional male last week but he'll need to be cycled a bit before introducing them. Has anybody out there experienced this? I do not know their age as I got them as 3' animals. All three are 6.5-7' in length.

Odd thing is they were housed together for 2 years when younger/smaller and I eventually split them up when cage space opened up. But when I reintroduced them for the first time last season the attacks from the male started.

Bill
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Re: Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby Bjorn » Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:16 pm

Welcome to the forum.

I have bred them before and found my males would do the same thing. I thought putting two males would cause a bit of competition to get them mating. Well it kinda worked as I got out babies. They males were also scratching each other and then when I cam back into the room they were trying to kill each other. I will never put two males of Madagascan Ground Boas together ever again. B.c.i have no issues with multiple males from my experience.

You mention you have a confirmed pair. They are not the easiest snakes to sex as the females prob deep up to 5-6 subcaudals where males are 8-9 maybe more. So just wondering if maybe a mistake could have been made.

Here is the link of my breeding http://www.sareptiles.co.za/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=11657

I hope you get this sorted and breed these amazing snakes!
Regards
Bjorn
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Re: Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby Bushviper » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:01 pm

Male Madagascan boas will try to kill and eat any other males during breeding season. They will also often try to kill any females which have the smell of a male on them. Never introduce two males after each other on the same female.

It could be that the sexing was not that accurate as the males of this species have the longest depth hemipenes of any boid. Males can probe up to 11 subcaudals. Try popping the "female" just to make sure. If she is trying to run the whole time then your breeding successes will be rather low as she is not ready. Try the other male in any case and see if the same thing happens. It is still early to try and breed them now. You can cool them down a bit and introduce the new male in February or March. Give them cool nights but warm days.

Good luck.
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Re: Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby Vegasbilly » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:57 pm

They have been probed multiple times as I kept having this nagging suspicion that I have two males. Confirmed every time that they are 1.1. Also the "female" has no visible spurs whatsoever. As I mentioned before, the aggressive male was finally spurring her for quite awhile before he finally bit her.....which never happened before...he'd just chase her for a few minutes and quickly clamp down. Both are totally off feed which is a first for them as well. Is the lack of spurs on the one animal relevant to this species?

It is early in the cycle. I'm probably 4 weeks in to it. Nights are 62F and days are 76F with the night/dark period now at 14 hours. I'm going to wait another 3 weeks or so and start all over again.

Bill
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Re: Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby Bushviper » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:28 pm

The lack of spurs should also be an indicator. This is commonly found in this genus. Possibly because the female is not receptive and that is what is causing the attack. Date-rape?

You can wait at least another two months if need be. Try the other male as well but just dont let them smell each other as mentioned before.
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Re: Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby MADABOA » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:38 pm

This behaviour is 100% typical of the fight between 2 males of this species. When housed alone the males of this species don't tolerate any introduction of another male in their terrarium. To my opinion, let the male alone and put the next fresh shed of your female in his terrarium. The male should begin to flick his tongue on the shed and to move his body around it. The day after put it with the female and monitor the behaviour. Let us know about the evolution of the situation.
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Re: Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby Vegasbilly » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:27 pm

Thanks for all the generous and much welcomed advise! I did out the second male in for just about 20 minutes and his reaction varied greatly from my super-aggressive resident male. His reaction to her was much more "typical" in that he was more methodical.....slow, careful, but deliberate approach. Her reaction to him was different as well.....not nearly the panic reaction as to the first male.

When I return home from a biz. trip I will have her probed one more time by a 3rd party for an unbiased assessment.

Bill
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Re: Mad. Ground Boa Breeding Issue

Postby MADABOA » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:20 pm

I bred this species 4 times in the past years and I never probed my snakes for sex determination. I only looked at the spurs and I put my snakes together accordingly. Spurs = male // No spurs = female.
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