This week's road cruise

Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Snakes4Africa » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:09 am

If you are going to post a thread, expect some questions. If you don't want questions, Don't Post!
This could have been interesting.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Fooble » Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:24 am

Thanks for the addition of those common names. Bushviper.

Copy pasting all allot of hose names into google sucks.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby dendroaspis » Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:06 pm

You assume I am in a huff about everything, but not really :)

Ok honestly i dont know how you managed to get yourself into a huff over this thread. All I am doing is trying to work out where you found Cape Files and scutatus together. Thats interesting.
Nobody is questioning if you know what a Cape File looks like, I just wondered if it was a typo.
Get over yourself, you didnt have to turn this ugly

Why is it that people always assume what you are trying to say? Nobody is in a huff about anything. The highly polished black you see on the picture is a brightness edit, the pics were very ba and in very poor light. So what you see is not really what you see.
Its the first Shield Nose I have found in that area in probably 50 trips, so it is a unique find.

Yeah I also think there is a huff for nothing. A general area would suffice like Froot said but if you are worried that forum members are gonna road cruise over the whole of the waterberg area and save the snakes from certain tyre death then I understand. I am willing to bet R100 that these snakes were taken somewhere in the waterberg area, be it Thabazimbi/Vaalwater/Ellisrus, all those roads are productive with all these species. And the roads are sometimes flooded with Naja mossambica.

Regarding the garter snake. I am also willing to bet it is not a sundevallii fitzsimonsi or sundevallii media (the only 2 that could possibly be found in the area). Boulengers garter snakes are relatively common up there. The sundevalli complex still have feint bandig at that size, bouldengeri lose the bands quick. Did you do scale counts? Got a close up of the head? Which specific species did you think it was? Saying sundavalls is vague?


The area is actually an easy thing to deduce. I work in the Harties area, so the obvious choice for road cruising would be a fairly quiet highway. The only one being on the way to Ellis Ras. Instead of trying to figure out if I got my knickers in a twist, it would be a good idea just to use your God given intelligence. No offence.
Also, few herpers actually go out and save the snake's life. Many, many guys come here to try and sell the snakes they caught, so your sarcasm about saving the snake's life is a null argument. There have been guys here with Afrocks 4m plus stuffed in the boot of the car they "found".

I'll send you the Garter to id if you like. Never too old to learn am I :)
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby froot » Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:01 pm

Dendroaspis I thought you lost interest.

Think! If cars are killing off so many animals, I don't want some plonker with an itch up his ass adding to the species loss up there.


No, you think. Of all the cars driving that road you were on, what percentage would you say were driven by herp enthusiasts eager to beef up their collection? Then you need to come to terms with the chances of one of those guys and a live trophy specimen meeting on that piece of road at the same time. The way I see it, if I was a M. Capensis wanting to cross the road my biggest fear would be being squashed under a tyre and my concern about being picked up by a collector would be comparatively infinitely small. Besides, if I did get picked up, it would probably be the next best bet to the next car squashing me. The chances that the car that is approaching a snake crossing the road will stop to pick it up are pretty small. If you gave us a vague idea of where you were when I asked you those chances would not be any bigger, but the knowledge that this topic would've brought us would've been more valuable.

I took exception to your reply:
I was in my car.

But I decided to shut up and leave it. You say you weren't in a 'huff' but you take this 'it's a big secret' approach and then bail out of the discussion because people had something to say about it. There would be no threat to the snakes in this area if you deflated the childish aspect of this a bit and just told us what province you were in. Not everyone knows you work in the Harties area besides, us humans are known for climbing into cars and moving around up to a considerable radius which means that you could be road cruising anywhere in the country. With that reply I got you'd swear I was asking you for GPS coordinates.

We are serious about reptile observations and don't appreciate these games. As S4A said, this could've been interesting.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby dendroaspis » Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:24 pm

No, you think. Of all the cars driving that road you were on, what percentage would you say were driven by herp enthusiasts eager to beef up their collection?

Based on the amount of people coming to sell herps? Quite a few.

If you gave us a vague idea of where you were when I asked you those chances would not be any bigger, but the knowledge that this topic would've brought us would've been more valuable.

How come Craig knew where I was? He actually thought a bit.

But I decided to shut up and leave it. You say you weren't in a 'huff' but you take this 'it's a big secret' approach and then bail out of the discussion because people had something to say about it
.
Nobody bailed out. You all raised interesting questions, and it was time to leave the topic so I can make sure about what was found.

Not everyone knows you work in the Harties area besides, us humans are known for climbing into cars and moving around up to a considerable radius which means that you could be road cruising anywhere in the country.

Again, how come Craig knew? Considering he is from the South Coast and you are from Gauteng.


With that reply I got you'd swear I was asking you for GPS coordinates.

And for the few guys that bothered to use the pm functions, they will receive all the gps co-ords they want, including some of the specimens and the dna samples. But they bothered to approach the topic properly.

We are serious about reptile observations and don't appreciate these games. As S4A said, this could've been interesting

I am not here to teach you anything, that's what google is for. I shared what was found. Yes, many interesting questions were raised. And to me it remains an interesting topic. For those that don't like it, feel free not to read it.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Bushviper » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:39 am

Okay so if everyone is supposed to know where everyone else works then that would be amazing.

If the localities are so secret then possibly we should not print any field guides because Fitzsimons gives actual localities for every single species listed.

Well if the photos are so grainy (your words) that we cannot even make out a white stripe on a grey snake then posting them is not much help.

If you are not here to teach anybody anything then was the post just to brag or was there another purpose we are not aware of. How interesting can a topic be that does not teach us anything? What we have learnt is that these snakes occur in South Africa and some get killed on the roads.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Snakes4Africa » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:27 am

I don't even know who you are, let alone where you live, work or drive around at night. If you think this entire group of people on the forum are going to trek out to where ever you found these snakes, you are mistaken. If I wanted to use Google to check up on your post, I would rather be using one of those other forums where people don't know how to post an item.
You don't identify your own findings and then call everyone who tries to, a so-called expert!
Google is a search engine. It is not there to teach us anything. It helps people find information, however accurate or inaccurate, on the internet.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby reptile_man65 » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:49 am

i'm looking for an egg eater. Those guys are really nice. Does anyone have one or know where to find them.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Matt Robinson » Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:55 pm

Ya you can get them in the wild. Or you can try the wanted ads there might be some there.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Serpy » Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:04 pm

This has been blown completely out of proportion again.. Why is it that so many of us have such hot tempers when it comes to things like this? I'm not looking for a fight from anyone so don't start attacking me now too
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby dendroaspis » Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:46 pm

Okay so if everyone is supposed to know where everyone else works then that would be amazing.

If the localities are so secret then possibly we should not print any field guides because Fitzsimons gives actual localities for every single species listed.

Well if the photos are so grainy (your words) that we cannot even make out a white stripe on a grey snake then posting them is not much help.

If you are not here to teach anybody anything then was the post just to brag or was there another purpose we are not aware of. How interesting can a topic be that does not teach us anything? What we have learnt is that these snakes occur in South Africa and some get killed on the roads.


First off, anyone in the herp world that doesn't know where I work lives in a box. Honestly. Its been in every newspaper and 4 times on the news in the last few months, so please, re-evaluate that statement.
Secondly, what Fitzsimmons does has absolutely nothing to do with what I do. I am TELLING you that many many people come to the park selling animals they find. While you may think conservation BV, not everyone does. Today alone, we were offered four night adders, two tiger snakes and one afrock. What I do, in my opinion, is in the best interest of the reptiles found up there. So run along.
Thirdly, BV, you will probably delete this, but in this topic I cannot remember asking your opinion once. Not once. You had no idea where Kaap Muiden was, so your opinion on location means very little to me. No offence.
In the last. Why do I need to teach? You are here ;)
I answered the questions as I saw fit. Anyone that knows me, knows I swear like a sailor. If I was offended by anything you would certainly know about it.

I don't even know who you are, let alone where you live, work or drive around at night. If you think this entire group of people on the forum are going to trek out to where ever you found these snakes, you are mistaken. If I wanted to use Google to check up on your post, I would rather be using one of those other forums where people don't know how to post an item.
You don't identify your own findings and then call everyone who tries to, a so-called expert!
Google is a search engine. It is not there to teach us anything. It helps people find information, however accurate or inaccurate, on the internet


Again, buy a newspaper from time to time.
I don't think this group is going to trek out there, but do you honestly believe every single member here is here for the benefit of the animal?
By using google you may find info you never thought of, or may find something to question you never thought to ask. By writing everything down you will never remember anything. If you ever studied anything, that concept should make sense. If listening to a lecturer got you passed, then why study? By reading something and looking for something yourself, you may learn something worth remembering.
Google is exactly what you said. A search engine for info. Use it, and you may remember a few things. While BV has helped alot of people by putting the common names there, it means little. How many posts have there been about Red Lipped Heralds in the last while? Yet, the scientific name confused many members. So what was the point? By making someone work for himself/herself for a change it will make a difference. While they may not know how to pronounce it (hell I don't), next time someone sees N. mossambica it may ring a bell.

I am not trying to pick a fight. Its my opinion and I am entitled to it :)
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Snakes4Africa » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:27 pm

Ok, I bought and read the newspaper today, last week and pretty much every weekend. I typed 'dendroaspis' into Google and I still don't know who you are. Or where you work.
When I started keeping and breeding snakes, there was no google. No internet. I learnt the hard way, by experience and networking with other interested people. We shared knowledge. These forums were put together with that in mind: the sharing of knowledge by an easily accessible medium. Internationally.
I don't know who you are. I don't know who you think you are... but obviously you think everyone does. Sorry. For you.

Serpy wrote:This has been blown completely out of proportion again.. Why is it that so many of us have such hot tempers when it comes to things like this?


Sarcasm and arrogance has caused tempers to flare.

Thirdly, BV, you will probably delete this, but in this topic I cannot remember asking your opinion once. Not once. You had no idea where Kaap Muiden was, so your opinion on location means very little to me. No offence.

By posting on this forum, you are inviting opinions. From an international audience.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby dendroaspis » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:36 am

I don't know who you are. I don't know who you think you are... but obviously you think everyone does. Sorry. For you.


Remember that 10 page thread about the snake sit in on this forum mate? You don't need to use google, just read some threads here from time to time. It is exactly how others knew where I work. It has nothing to do with arrogance mate. By reading threads you can usually pick up where someone is from with regards to callouts and fieldwork.

By posting on this forum, you are inviting opinions. From an international audience.

Then give an opinion about what you see pictured, and not my wonderful life skills ;)
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Bushviper » Mon Nov 24, 2008 5:59 am

Welll I have been told more than once that the place where you work is up for sale. How are we supposed to know if you are still employed there. I had heard sombody working there got bitten a few times and resigned but was not told who that is either. That could have been you as well.

Why would people keep offering you wild caught animals if you are not accepting them to start with. Why would they assume you buy them? Jack Seale just across the way does not have the same problem, but many people donate snakes that they find because they think it is the right thing to do.

I know you did not ask for my opinion so I wont charge you for it. This time it is free.

Yeah so I did not know where Kaap Muiden is and I admit it. That is why we all (some of us) try to learn things from forums like this.
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Re: This week's road cruise

Postby Rob » Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:31 am

Im out of popcorn.

Shall we just assume everyone has had their say and move on? Nobody is convincing anyone else so this has become pointless. People have said and made up their own minds.
This kind of thing keeps people away from forums like these which is the last thing anyone wants.
Dendro - Can I make a request that next time you post your finds that you do include common names just to make things simpler and also give us the province or general area you were in, rather than wanting everyone to guess. Or am i pushing it here?
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