P.guttatus x L.alterna

Interspecies breeding and 2 headed snakes are the type of thing that would be discussed here. We are aware that these are controversial issues and some people feel strongly about their opinions on them. Please respect each other's views and keep discussions amicable.

P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Stony » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:51 pm

My only snake, at the moment, is a corn snake x grey banded king snake hybrid (Tazz). (I know many people don't like hybrids, but please no flames/negative feedback, thank you)
I have been searching the internet for a month now, trying to find a “name” for such a hybrid, but I can’t find anything (only one person jokingly referring to it as the ‘Alterna corn’). Until now I also only found the pairing listed on one list, so it seems that my Tazzy is more on the rare side…

Now to my question: Does anyone know if this “breed” (doubt that you could really call it a morph, but then the Jungle is considered a morph… I’m very much ‘cornfused’…) has a name?

Nevertheless I will be starting a progression thread, to see how she turns out. (Sadly I don’t know how she looked like when she hatched… oh well, can’t be changed.)

1 year old:
Image
Image

a huge thanks already to those who can help with my question ;)

best regards
Stony
Mommy of: 0.0.1 corn x grey-banded king hybrid (Tazz) / 1.1.0 rabbits (Diepsy & Stupsi) / 0.1.0 Teddy hamster (Philani)
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Durban Keeper » Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:11 am

Hi Stony. Im curious. Why did you opt to get something like this over a wild type alterna such as this one? http://s281.photobucket.com/user/Durban ... ort=3&o=78

Tazzy is definitely not a 'breed' I know exactly what its called though: a hybrid. That is all it is. Its not a genetic abnormality (read morph)

Why people breed snakes such as these together boggles my mind. What does my head in even more is that people actually buy them.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Izzy » Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:52 am

(I know many people don't like hybrids, but please no flames/negative feedback, thank you)


What does my head in even more is that people actually buy them
Easy does it Durban Keeper, could have been a rookie mistake.:lol: But to be honest Durban Keeper is right, hybrids are really a sad affair and he's assessment of what your snake is, is spot on :!: :-?
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Bushviper » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:04 pm

This section is for people who like hybrids so lets play nice!

I have not heard of a name for this combination.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Lillypod » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:44 am

I've heard that hybrids tend not to live long, or at least as long as they should. Can anyone state if this is true or false?
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Bushviper » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:53 am

Hybrids of some combinations live long and do well. Others do not do as well. A black rat snake crossed with a yellow rat snake for example is an intergrade and will do just as well as any of the parents. A corn snake crossed with a rat snake also lives long and does well. A ball python crossed with a reticulated python will not live very long and seems to have problems right from the start. Low fertility, low hatching rate fewer babies eating on their own etc make you realise that that is not such a good idea. If you look there is only one Bitis nasicornis which was crossed with a puff adder. Why only one baby and how come it has not been done more regularly. It can become an interesting debate. I am pretty sure that 99.9 % of these hybrids are not even within the normal geographical range of the species they originate from so it makes no difference to the wild populations in any case.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Gwapo » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:47 am

I have to support Bushviper's point of view. Sexual compatibility between species varies apon a lot of factors. I personally love both the pure species and the hybrids. We as snake keepers are in fact busy "domesticating" difefrent species, together with this process hybridization is a reality (cattle is a prime example). Another part of this process is selecting what we as humans like visually...colour. Another aspect is that we select babies that feed easily on pinkies (Wild Grey Banded babies will prefer lizards). The low fertility mentioned are normally observed in the F1 progeny, once the F1 is back-crossed to either parent the problems normally disappear in the F2. Hybrids are beautiful and as long as you sell them as such I can see no issue with producing them...remember that recent DNA analyses has shown that most people of European and Asian decent has about 5% Neanderthal genes in them...does this make us "unwanted" hybrids as well (the same makers were not found in the "pure" modern humans in Africa)?

In RSA/Europe we definately do not produce North American snake species to ensure their survival in the wild.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Lillypod » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:36 am

Oh, ok. Thanks!
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby rolandslf » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:38 pm

I am not one to fight or argue, but I need to express my opinion here.
As BV said, play nice.
This Button was created for those who like and enjoy the variety of whatever nature develops from hybridisation, whether it be size, colour, character etc.
It was created for these kind of people , who were continuously ripped apart whenever they mentioned Hybrid, anywhere else.

My advise, if you don't agree with, or like Hybrids, don't press the Button.
If you do out of curiosity want to see or read what is said, please do not comment negatively.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Durban Keeper » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:08 pm

My comment was not intended as an attack. The only reason I had anything to say was because I really like grey banded kingsnakes. Every other post under every other section is open to debate and freedom of expression, why should this section be any different? I just wanted to know why the person opted for this as upposed to a wild type which is much prettier. You can call that snake what ever you want. Its got no common or latin name as it was never actually intended to exist.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Inyanga » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:19 am

Just an opinion. Morphs and mutants are just as unnatural as hybrids. Keeping animals in captive conditions well out of their natural range is just as problematic as (one reason among many) natural selection no longer functions as it "should" on the animal populations so kept.

Personal taste is what it is, when humans get involved should be/shouldnt be are sides of a line, so long as hybrids do not result in the "contamination" of "pure" stock let it be.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Stony » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:09 pm

Thanks for all the interesting replies.
I really didn't want some sort of fight to start about people liking hyrbids or not. That is why I posted this in a section for hybrids as I didn't think anyone who doesn't like them would bother to look or even comment on it. But oh well.

Thanks again
Best regards,
Stony
Mommy of: 0.0.1 corn x grey-banded king hybrid (Tazz) / 1.1.0 rabbits (Diepsy & Stupsi) / 0.1.0 Teddy hamster (Philani)
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby Jamster » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:31 pm

Good for you stony. You have found something that you like, wether it be hybrid or not doesn't matter.She looks healthy and well fed:)

Many people dont like the idea of hybrids. I reckon that many naturally occuring snakes may be the result of integration of species in wild populations. Lets say perhaps that this hybrid was the naturally occurring appearance of a species. It gets hybridised with another snake and throws out something looking like a grey banded king. That hybrid would receive the same flack as any other, regardless of how appealing it looks.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby rolandslf » Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:33 am

Hello Dean, this button was created as a result of those who like Hybrids, getting attacked all the time.

A request was made way back when, for the Mods to create a button, where we could discuss what we liked, without being attacked or harassed left, right and centre.
I appreciate your comment on the freedom of expression, but if I recall correctly, when the button was created, an unofficial agreement was that we would not be given any grief when posting under this button.

Having said all of the above, we are still Buds, albeit with a slight difference of opinion.
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Re: P.guttatus x L.alterna

Postby mamba1 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:02 am

Although I do find certain man made hybrids a bit on the crazy side, I do not shun the creativity of those willing to experiment a bit in controlled captive settings.
Hybridization intrigues me, especially when naturally occurring hybrids are discovered and when the same hybrid is discovered 'fairly' regularly. Two examples that come to mind would be gaboon viper X puff adder and red toad X guttural toad.
As Jamster said, who is to say that many already well known species of animal weren't hybrids to begin with (whether the lineage is alive or extinct today) only to be described as a species on its own by humans in recent times, and perhaps many more species are still to come as a result of hybridization..... that is if humans allow the natural world to exist long enough for this to occur.
Mambas and cobras and white lip tree vipers.... Boas and boomslang and all of the pythons...... Twig snakes and sea snakes and a puff adders skin...... These are a few of my favourite things.
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