Good news about Leopard tortoises in Gauteng

[Nasicornis]

MacAdder. I think your idea of what Joe Public is and the genral rule is a bit different.

I refer to Joe Public as someone I saw at the SOS expo who choose a green iguana over a bearded dragon as a pet for his 6 year old because it is "green and prettier".

You are defenitely not Joe Public. Aren't you a member of SA-Reptiles????

[MacAdder]

… You are defenitely not Joe Public. …

Thanx for the vote of confidence Nasicornis but even if I have 30 years experience in reptile related matters I would be forced to pay a subscription to some society to keep a tortoise or two living in Gauteng.
I doubt attending meetings or associating would be compulsory as money talks.

[Bushviper]

The idea is that people who join the associations want to exchange information and be active in the conservation of our reptiles. If you do not want to you can still keep a tortoise but just not breed with them. To breed you must show that you will be able to make babies available to people (club members) who have an interest in reptiles and want to promote their awareness.

If you have had a bad experience then you are free to start your own association and be recognised by Natcon. If they do not want to recognise you then you must look why your credibility is suspect.

Bribery is not an option in Gauteng and if I ever find out about any corruption I will blow the whistle myself because I refuse to have someone else be advantaged just because of an illegal payment to a civil servant who is here to administer an Act.

[MacAdder]

...money talks.

I was not suggesting corruption but was referring to subscription, which equals money for nothing in someone’s pocket.

As I have said previous. I do not wish to be drawn into a debate on this issue so accept that I personally have no confidence in such an arrangement due to it not relating to conservation.

[Bushviper]

I suppose to each his own.

The feeling here, which Natcon agrees on, is that they cannot keep an eye on and assist every member of the public that has a tortoise but if the specific person is a member of the association then we will be a buffer between them and the "public". We also have far more time and practical knowledge to help the keeper and ultimately help the animals. It is far easier to explain to an amateur herper why babies should not just be released in any environment than "Joe Public". Finding suitable homes for excess animals is far easier via the herp societies than an ad in the junk mail for comparison.

Natcon are not husbandry experts and just administer an act so it is not imperative that they intimately conversant with all aspects of every animal species.

Our Association has books which are audited annually as required and the funds are used for venues, food and beverages at meetings, paying for parking and venue or equipment hire as well as other minor admin costs. Every year the association also sponsors a percentage of the cost of the end of year function. In the past we have had entire weekends at places like Roodeplaat Nature Reserve, Emerald Casino wildlife park, Klein Kariba Pleasure resort and even just entire days spent at Rhino and Lion Park. As you can see this money never goes into anyones pocket.

Possibly this is why we are the oldest and probably the most respected amateur herp association in South Africa.

[Trayton]

i think this is great news,but all this talk about herp associations leads me to a question it seems nobody can answer...what happened to HAN?

[Bushviper]

Trayton as far as I could make out there was a lack of interest in continuing with HAN and it was disbanded. It was discussed on the form a year or so ago.

[froot]

Somehow I missed this topic. This needs to be cleared up here and now.

I was not suggesting corruption but was referring to subscription, which equals money for nothing in someone’s pocket.

MacAdder do you have any substantial proof supporting the insinuations you have made about funds paid to the THA being embezzled?

If not, then prove to me that you are not stirring.

[Rob]

This good information BV.
I'm a supporter of reptile owners being members of a Herp association and that the rules and conditions of keeping, catching etc. be negotiated by the chair persons with Natcon.

I agree with you. I believe all keepers should belong to an association who's chairpersons deal directly with Natcon regarding rules and regulations. The chairpersons discuss topics from the keepers point of view and act as the link between keepers and Natcon.

[MacAdder]

MacAdder do you have any substantial proof supporting the insinuations you have made about funds paid to the THA being embezzled?

Sorry Froot you misunderstand what I have said and apologies if you have again misunderstood me. I am not accusing any one or group of corruption, embezzlement or any wrongdoing.
I personally don’t agree with being forced to join any club association but in turn respect what ever the association chosen by who ever.

Bottom line is the freedom of association and freedom of choice that I feel is being trampled on nothing more.

[froot]

Fair enough and your opinion is respected.

We will then conclude that what you mentioned about corruption was a mere factless generalisation without any relevance to this topic whatsoever which was what I requested clarity on, nothing was misunderstood. You need to consider the gravity of such inflammatory statements on a public board, as well as the effects it can have on related parties.
Please think before you post.

Back to topic.

[Nasicornis]

BV, do you have idea as to when exactly this meeting will take place?

[MacAdder]

You need to consider the gravity of such inflammatory statements ....
Please think before you post.

Sorry to be off topic here but to answer Froot so he is on the same page. I never made any inflammatory statements or accused any one of anything so I suggest that before you accuse me or wish to give me advise make sure of your facts.

As you were!

[Deon]

Are we getting back to the topic??

[Bushviper]

Deon that is an excellent suggestion.

Hijacking seems to be a South African phenomenon.