NATCON and my beardie

[CarlaSmit87]

Need help here guys!
I applied for a permit for my beardie. I brought her into Northern Cape last year totally legal (Have a import permit)
(and yeah I know I should not have waited this long to apply.....)
Now a lady just called me from NATCON saying the bearded dragon is no longer allowed in the Northern Cape due to new legislation. I must find a new home for it in another province within 90 days.

What do I do now? I really love my beardie and she's as tame as a puppy, she walks freely in my house at nights when I watch TV.

Now reptile keepers around here do not see eye to eye with NATCON and I won't be surprised if I'm the first to apply for my permits (Yeah small town) But I do know of various other people with beardies without permits. I pointed this out to the lady of NATCON (did not mention names) and she said those people probably applied for permits during the previous legislation.
But I have a legal import permit for a beardie which I got during previous legislation, won't that maybe help me out?
She just told me to call another guy and I can argue with him all I want...

Anyone have some tips on what I can do???

[Qball]

Call the other guy and argue with him... lol
As far as I know, they are well within their rights to refuse you a permit if the transport permit has expired and you have not applied for a captive permit. Please don't think I'm giving you the "It serves you right" lecture, but why did you let the transport permit lapse?

[Chameleon Company]

If you have an import permit prior to the enactment of Cape legislation (red list) regarding bearded dragons then you should argue it and explain that you imported the animal at a time in which the species was not 'banned' in the Cape Provinces.

Obviously some bearded dragons are in the province on permit that where there prior to the new enforcement and the exception is then granted to owners of such animals.

All the best and remember to be nice, hahaha they thrive on people who tend to 'suck up'.

[Bjorn]

I don't think it would be fair to make you part with your beardie if it came in legally. If they want you to get rid of it through import/export permits and without confiscating it then it must still have a permit trail to do so.

I think a reasonable option would be that you should be allowed to fill out a sworn affidavit stating your reason for not getting the captivity permit whether it be forgetfulness etc. They can then maybe penalize you with a light fine or written warning. Then they could re issue you with a permit where they state the beardie is black listed and may not be bred/sold etc. So then it can live out it's life with you.

I have this with my Western Hognose snakes I imported as they came in legally and then were black listed.

This is just my opinion and what I think would be a fair option.

I hope things work out for you.

[michael]

Can Natcon NC please advise her? Your assistance would be appreciated to prevent the loss of a loved pet!

[Bushviper]

Luckily you have the constitution of SA on your side. They cannot take your legal property away from you. If you legally owned it they cannot take it away from you because the law has changed. If you owned a left hand drive vehicle and these were no longer allowed then you could own them but not import any more. If you owned a ferret and the law changed then they issued you with a permit for the ferret and this was not transferable. The same should apply for your beardie.

They should issue the permit and say you may not breed with it or sell it within the province. Phone the person who makes the decisions and see what they can do. Offer to microchip it and not breed it and never transport it without a permit except in an emergency if you need to take it to the vet and see if they will issue that permit.

A good lawyer / advocate will win this case with his eyes closed but that will cost money. Hopefully the court with award it with costs but this might still break you financially. Remember the conservation authorities are using our taxpayers money if this goes to court so this does not bother them.

[CarlaSmit87]

Thanks BV, was waiting for your reply. Also everyone else thanks for the info
I mailed NATCON NC this morning and asked him/her to also comment ons this post.

[Natcon NC]

Ok I have sent a email to CarlaSmit87explainining the reasons for not allowing her beardie. Our new legislation which came in effect form the 1 January 2012 prohibits the keeping of certain reptile including beardies. She however still can appeal our decision not to allow the beardie.

Just for general information: Before our new legislation can into effect when someone applied to import any exotic reptiles into the province they where given a form which they had to sign which stated that they did take note that the possibility did exist that some of these species could be listed as species which may not be kept in the Northern Cape and that they might in the future have to get rid of these species and that they would not hold the department responsible for any costs incurred in the process.

[Loslappie]

however still can appeal our decision not to allow the beardie.
Just for general information: Before our new legislation can into effect when someone applied to import any exotic reptiles into the province they where given a form which they had to sign which stated that they did take note that the possibility did exist that some of these species could be listed as species which may not be kept in the Northern Cape and that they might in the future have to get rid of these species and that they would not hold the department responsible for any costs incurred in the process.

For informations sake
Appealing a decision made by Natcon would involve legal procedure I take it? or is an appeal lodged with Natcon offices?
"get rid of species" - how is that generally done? or how is this proposed? according to Natcon? Why cant the animal be kept until it reaches the end of its natural life?

Bjorn - If Im correct, you may keep the hoggies, but cannot sell or breed them?

[CarlaSmit87]

Feeling like throwing a "Vloermoer"

[michael]

@ NatCon NC
I assume this legislation has to do with biodiversity conservation and preventing new exotic species from becoming established?

Who does the research for this legislation? I would love to meet these people I’m sure they must be fantastic storey tellers with such creative imaginations! Scientifically speaking a species can only become an invasive if a niche is not being filled in the natural environment.

With this new legislation I assume you will be tackling more issues than only invasive bearded dragons? I really do hope that you become the first province to bravely go where no other has and really tackle the threats facing South Africa’s biodiversity. This has now become a critical issue!

Will your new legislation prevent the degradation of ecosystems by private land owners? For example did you know that reptile biodiversity significantly declines in an area that is overgrazed or shows lows plants species variation? I really want to see you tackle this issue.

Will your legislation fix the massive ecological destruction on the West Coast?

Will your legislation ban other proven problem pets? You must be aware that house cats are a major threat to the genetics of our indigenous wild cats. Will your legislation address this problem? If so how?

Would you recommend that problem house cats be confiscated and euthanized, or would you give their owners 90 days to get rid of their pesky animals?
Does your new legislation have any real plan for dealing with the threats of existing invasive species?

Does your new legislation have anything on dealing with officials or the public who indiscriminately kill reptiles as they perceive them as a dangerous problem?

I hope you understand my irritation.

Your legislation is like most other is pretty pointless. It has little scientific substance to it only examining the agreeable viewpoints. What do you think forcing this lady to give up a beloved pet will do? Do you honestly think you will get any more support from her? You already have minimal support in the reptile community and limited, competetent man power. How on earth would you really implement this legislation effectively?

[Loslappie]

Strange thing is, Beardies might be allowed in the Western Cape in the future (near or distant only time will tell)

[Westley Price]

I'll have to go and be the "drol" in the conversation.

I actually understand the reasons for Beardies being considered potentially invasive, especially in the Northern Cape which is quite similar to their natural habitat.

We have our own local Agamas, which occupy the same niche (or at least similar) to the Beardies and I'm fairly sure the larger Beardies will out-compete the local Agamas.

Having said that, I do not agree with the manner the "Beardy extermination" is being done.

It would be better to issue permits to individuals who have had Beardies before the pass of the legislation and just put a clause in there that says the breeding is not permitted.

This process will certainly lead to a decrease in the number of Beardies.

But just like everything else, if someone want to keep a Beardy, they are going to do it, permits or not.

[michael]

My issue is not necessarily with whether beardies are invasive or not, but rather with the way conservation seems to approach their problems. They seem overzealous to hit the small issues hard but their commitment is just not there with the big issues. When other governmental institutions are causing massive ecological degradation which will affect the general population negatively then they say they must practice “cooperative governance”. But keep an illegal pet and they throw the book at you. Are their priorities not just slightly skewed?

[Hoss]

The answer is simple: CarlaSmit87 = soft target. Congratulations Natcon NC.