Burm dead because of Vet.

At one stage or the other, we all deal with a death. It is never nice losing a pet and thus, you can share your loss with the rest of us and share your memories so that they will be remembered.

Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby Bushbaby » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:47 pm

http://www.snakebiteassist.co.za
http://www.reptileexpo.co.za
http://www.boaconstrictors.co.za
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby snake-eyes » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:44 pm

thanks for the numbers
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby Boakepper » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:47 am

I know it's a old post but wow can't belive that docter shabeer missed that! I use docter shabeer for all my animals and when you bring a snake in he could stand and talk to you about it for hours! But guess he is also humen
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby sega » Sat Sep 24, 2011 10:18 am

Human.
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0.1.0 snow corn snake,1.0.0 male butter corn snake,1.1.0 candy cane corn snakes,1.0.0butter stripe\motley,amel motley
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby Blet » Sat Sep 24, 2011 4:14 pm

As has been stated, best not blame the vet in this case. Everyone has his/her own opinion on and reason for keeping reptiles in captivity. The following are a few basic rules I follow...

(1) read about/research the species involved BEFORE you get it...how often do you hear silly remarks on this forum alone? With the internet, books and magazines available there is no excuse for ignorance. Surely you're interested in the animal you're about to get?
(2) once you've done your research, check your budget...how many herps spend their last penny on a specimen they've always dreamed of and then struggle to afford decent husbandry practices and enclosures, let alone vet bills. If you cant do it right, don't do it at all!
(3) reptiles are not PETS...I agree my snakes have individual personalities and character traits and they certainly respond to me when I enter their room, BUT none of them, or any other reptile I've come accross over 27 years in the herp world, have even ENJOYED human company or handling. Taking your pet reptile to the shops and restaurants is either plain ignorance or simply a way to achive some form of selfworth...makes no sense to me and extremely selfish towards the public and animal involved. Handle your reptiles responsibly and only when necessary (cleaning housing, treatment, removing eggs from nest box, feeding etc). This type of nonsense is what will give our hobby/interest a bad name.

As has been stated, upper respiratory disease is very treatable and almost always sprout from poor husbandry practices. 'Poor' may be a harsh word in the case of some very specific species which may require extremely specific needs to be met, but this goes back to point no.2...if you cant do it right...
This was a Burmese...
Once upper respiratory infections go terribly wrong and pneumonia sets in, you and your reptile are in for the long haul. This is far more difficult to treat and the prognosis is certainly guarded from the outset. Typically you'll need a bacterial culture done to id the type of bacteria involved and select your antibiotics according to an antibiogram done for the same strain of bacteria. Extended hospitalization will be required for treatment, nebulization, physiotherapy, supportive care, enviromental managment and monitoring. And here lies the rub... I'm a veterinarian and I can assure you that very rarely will a client come along who will be fully prepared to go all the way for their reptile. Again see point no.2 above

My advice then...do things right from the outset and avoid these scenarios altogether. If things do go wrong, take responsibility, but don't blame a 3rd party.
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby Boakepper » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:02 am

Very true thanks but i am a person who will go all the way to make sure my animals live, me and my other half probably have the most expensive guinea pigs on earth!
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby Kev » Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:57 am

Blet wrote:(2) once you've done your research, check your budget...how many herps spend their last penny on a specimen they've always dreamed of and then struggle to afford decent husbandry practices and enclosures, let alone vet bills. If you cant do it right, don't do it at all!.


I could not agree more.
We all learn from our mistakes and unfortunatly these things happen.
I have always taken my snakes to Shabeer and have complete trust in him, I personaly think he is one of the best out there.
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby Bushviper » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:14 am

Blet that is so true. Unfortunately very few vets know enough about reptiles which compounds the problem. Self diagnosis and dosing can be a bigger problem.

When I see people taking their snakes for "walks" I want to beat them. They do not enjoy that. If it is for educational purposes for a short period of time then that is still acceptable. If not then leave them in the environment which they have to be in.
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby bubblesharp » Sun Sep 25, 2011 10:56 am

Bushviper wrote:Blet that is so true. Unfortunately very few vets know enough about reptiles which compounds the problem. Self diagnosis and dosing can be a bigger problem.

When I see people taking their snakes for "walks" I want to beat them. They do not enjoy that. If it is for educational purposes for a short period of time then that is still acceptable. If not then leave them in the environment which they have to be in.

Amen to all the last comments!

I was at cars in the park this year and came across a guy with a +- 1.7m red tail boa around his neck. I gave him a puzzled look and he asked if I'm scared of snakes? Too which I answered "No, I just don't understand why you would bring your snake here". Keep in mind this year at Swartkop race way it was less than 10C in the morning and it got to around 20C in the afternoon with chilly winds all day. He told me that the snake goes everywhere with him, upon which I replied in question if he knows that he is killing his "pet"? He told me snakes can handle it and that he is keeping the snake warm under his jersey. I felt that I could strangle him, but knew that I was wasting my time, when he told me that it was his 3rd RTB I just about lost it. He was in his early 20's and realizing that a RTB can grow to older than what he was, he already killed 2! I can only imagine what conditions the snake is kept in at home, a cage, water bowl and heat pad, maybe? He just turned around and walked away!

Some people should really not be allowed to keep reptiles. The longest my snakes have ever been out of their enclosures was 2 hours during a move from JHB to PTA. I take them out while cleaning cages, and that would be around 30-45min while my uncle usually holds them as it is the only time he gets the chance and he absolutely loves it. He usually stands in the sun with them to allow them a little natural sun light. I know its not necessary but 30 min every fort night shouldn't do any harm. After everything has been disinfected and the cages is up and running again, the snake goes back in left for 2 days then fed.

Oh and BV after the husbandary course I managed too get my the hide for my female RTB stable temp to 32.4C, with a drop to 30.5-31.2C during night time. I'm still working on the rest of the cage as it is 28C day time, but drops to 24C night time, running 7 heat pads so far, with 3 underneath the hide and one stuck to the roof of the hide for heat from above and too prevent heat loss through the roof. I'm getting a panel heater also so that I will be able to open up another vent as the cage is constantly wet from condensation, placing 3 vents on the cool side and only one on the warm side to prevent a draft forming inside the cage. I'm also hanging a lint from the roof to monitor for a draft as the plastic plants doesn't move that much. Hopefully moving into a new home early Feb with a granny flat that will become my snake room then her cage will be constant cold side 27C. Hold thumbs.
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby 24088847 » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:46 pm

After reading all of this, some fantastic points made! I agree its our human nature to place blame! I am sorry for your loss too but don't take your emotions out on some one and try give them a bad reputation! Dr Shabeer and his Collegues are awesome with reptiles and exotics.
Your vet consult is a snap shot picture in time. If ur. Snake did not show mucus at the back of its throat or round its wind pipe at the time of the consult, it is highly unlikely to diagnose a resp infection. Most of the reasons for a skinny snake tend to lie on the side of husbandry issues! As to your comment on "did not use a stethoscope":you clearly don't know how stethoscopes work! To hear weezes or crackles from a respiratory infection you need airflow in and out of the lungs. Reptile breathing is slow and very little turbulance can be heard to Identify these problems, so a vet will very rarely listen to a reptiles lungs unless it is breathing rapidly! Your GP will ask u to take deep breathes when listening to your chest! Can you realistically do this with your snake!
Like I said, I'm sorry to hear about ur loss but don't go slate someones name like that in public! I have never had problems with this doctor and he has spent many hours with me and my reptiles! Yes we all humans but I don't think the human error in this case was the vet!i
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Re: Burm dead because of Vet.

Postby Boakepper » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:51 am

I agree with everything here! I took on snakes not knowing anything but i have spent thousands on them to make sure they living a life of luxury and have been reading non stop the most my snakes get handeld is when i clean and i only clean when its nice and hot sunny day(or i spot clean) and then i let them out on the grass for a bit and then back inside.
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