Forgive me if I come across as naive

[Unforgiven]

But,

If there are so many people owning exotic highly venomous snakes why are there no antivenoms in SA?

I understand the fact that because mambas, cobras etc are indigenous and therefore the chance of being bitten is quite a lot higher and we therefore would have such antivenoms

But,
If a hot keeper were to take their snake for milking why couldnt the country make a plan to create an antivenom?
For the common species like rattle snakes, vipers the only problem I see is there are a wide variety of anti venoms to cover, but if an owner has been bit or a friend of the owner atleast they would know right off the mark which snakes antivenom they need?

Can someone enlighten me why this is not done?

[Herald_23]

The government won't fund the making of anti-venom serums because it is not economically viable so funding, in little amounts I should imagine, is supplied by institutions etc. There is one guy in EL that has his own serums made apparently (heard that from a pharmacist when I went to get some anti-histamines for my snake bite)

[Bushviper]

Sorry to disillusion you but there is no way that any private individual was having his own serums made. Antivenom cannot be brewed in your garage and a lab will charge you thousands and thousands of rands to make it. It has to be tested and stored properly.

The number of bites from exotic venomous snakes would never justify the making and storing of locally produced antivenom. In the US there is not even justification for the making of coral snake antivenom even though they have a far greater need for it than anyone else. The company that is going back into production states that it is making a loss on this product even though they will be using the same facilities as what they use for other vaccines.

[Herald_23]

Sorry to disillusion you but there is no way that any private individual was having his own serums made. Antivenom cannot be brewed in your garage and a lab will charge you thousands and thousands of rands to make it. It has to be tested and stored properly.

The number of bites from exotic venomous snakes would never justify the making and storing of locally produced antivenom. In the US there is not even justification for the making of coral snake antivenom even though they have a far greater need for it than anyone else. The company that is going back into production states that it is making a loss on this product even though they will be using the same facilities as what they use for other vaccines.

Like I said, I was told; I did not see it personally. I do agree with you on the on the number of exotic venomous snake bites being too few to create a great demand for antivenom

[Unforgiven]

. I do agree with you on the on the number of exotic venomous snake bites being too few to create a great demand for antivenom

Perhaps we need to get a few more "brave" keepers bit then the demand would go up..

Wishful thinking but thanks for the answers

[Serpent]

This is exactly the reason why I keep the hots that I keep. They are venomous, and deliver a very painful bite, but in most cases they are not deadly. I will not keep any kind of rattler, cotton mouth, exotic cobra or any exotic that requires antivenom for a bite.

A mate got bitten by a WDR, there was nothing available, the bite was treated symptimatically, luckily it was almost a dry bite with a minute amount of invenomation or we/he would have been in serious trouble.

If you are extremely rich you could import your own, however I am told they only have a two year shelf life, so this route is not viable either. It is a massive process to produce antivenom, which takes years of research to develope in large laboritories etc. The Gov would never pay for and import expensive antivenoms because 0.01% of the population feel the need to keep deadly snakes from all corners of the globe.

Hots are a great thrill and very exciting to keep, but are simply not worth the risk for the average collector. If you ride a motorbike, you are likely to come a cropper, if you keep hots, you will get bitten sooner or later, and when that time comes, I sincerely hope all your affairs are in order.

They are just not worth it.

[Unforgiven]

What you mean become a cropper if you ride a motorcycle?

[Hoss]

...come a cropper, ...

...as in fall off

[Unforgiven]

Oh done that a few times already

[Herald_23]

I've been bitten (my hand mistaken as part of the food) by my herald and for 4 days my hand looked like a balloon. I eventually got myself some anti histamines, which worked. I am very careful now and have anti-his. on hand

[Unforgiven]

I've been bitten (my hand mistaken as part of the food) by my herald and for 4 days my hand looked like a balloon. I eventually got myself some anti histamines, which worked. I am very careful now and have anti-his. on hand

Your hand was mistaken for food? Dont you have a set of tongs? glad you were okay though

[Herald_23]

it wasn't the greatest idea, feeding her without my gloves. The reaction to the bite was an allergic reaction. I left her on my hand for about 2 minutes. Pity I did not take pictures. Will next time though

[Qball]

I really dont think an allergic reaction had anything to do with it mate... leaving her on your hand for 2 minutes and letting her chew her venom in was the cause of the swelling...

[MegF]

Actually, the chance of a cottonmouth being deadly if you get to a hospital to treat symptomatically is small unless you are allergic. While the venom is more potent than that of contortrix, neither species (A. contortrix, or A. piscivorous) is considered extremely high on the LD 50 chart. Not a good idea to get bitten by anything and certainly keeping species that have no antivenom available anywhere is not a good idea. Even the exotic species I keep has antivenom available to me. Either the local zoo or at Dade County Florida venom bank.

[croteseeker]

Actually, the chance of a cottonmouth being deadly if you get to a hospital to treat symptomatically is small unless you are allergic. While the venom is more potent than that of contortrix, neither species (A. contortrix, or A. piscivorous) is considered extremely high on the LD 50 chart.

That's a dangerous assumption to make. A. piscivorus bites are almost always treated with antivenin, thus data regarding untreated bites is hard to come by. Making assumptions based strictly on a number and no other criteria is maybe not the wisest course of action, particularly with this species. You must look at this animal from all aspects to understand how dangerous they can be. I also feel that ld50 is useful, but you're ignoring other factors mentioned in the same research which should have stood out as a warning.

A couple facts to keep in mind:

1) A. piscivorus and A. contortix do have similar venoms, but
2) A. piscivorus has about twice the venom yield.
3) A. piscivorus has an ld50 rating which is similar to Bothrops atrox and Crotalus lepidus, with a venom yield roughly between the two.
4) It's also a worse bite than your eyelash viper. Watch your fingers.
5) Bites are very difficult to treat symptomatically. They call this snake the rottenmouth for a reason.
6) Perhaps most telling, while copperhead bites are often treated symptomatically and without antivenin, that is not the case with the cottonmouth, in which case even a dry bite will likely receive a small dose of CroFab.
7) Also important, many figures available online do not reflect actual statistics. Google American snake bite statistics and it'll tell you no Agkistrodon has killed anyone since the '80s. This is not true. I can think of at least two deaths in just the past couple of years from this genus.

BTW, nice to meet you, Meg.
Sorry if I come off like I'm trying to lecture. I mean well, but I'm kind of an #$%&##.