Unsafe Containers as Randburg Reptile Expo

[NewtTZ]

I went to the Randburg reptile Expo yesterday as usual exotic venomous snakes were being sold. There was a stand ( I have forgotten the name but you know who you are) with a plastic deli tub containg a pair of neonate White Lipped Tree vipers in it. The tub was not locked in a cage but was left within reach of adults and children. The tub could easily have been knocked off and worse there was not even a venomous warning. This gentleman should not be allowed to keep let alone sell venomous snakes. It takes one accident and all snake keepers will be painted with the same brush. If you are keeping venomous snakes please do so responsibly so that I may continue to keep my Boas and King Snakes in peace.

[DooMShortS]

I Saw exactly the same thing. Scary part was all the kids running around the place.

One other thing was 5/6 BD's kept in a cage as big a shoe box, with feet and tails that had been bitten off. Another in a cage that had no electricity so no light or heating.

I had really mixed emotions from yesterday.

But all and all I saw a lot of animals I've never seen before.

[NewtTZ]

Also some guy was selling hatchling corn snakes for R100 not just normal but morphs as well he was pedaling them like he was selling cheap watches at a flea market. Bet those corns were not feeding and will not live very long with a new owner who bought on impulse same with the hatchling bearded dragons. I am was sad there were snakes for sale which are worth twice as much as they were being sold for I suppose to make a sale. The reptiles should come first profit last. Dont even get me started on the Caimans it is a very sore point with me.

[Whitelipp]

Im sorry NewtTZ but you are missing the plot here with your comment on pricing.
Your first comment was legit about the safety, but I don't think you are understanding the expo concept so nicely.
The thing that an expo does is offer animals to the public below a pet shop price. Now your designer corn morphs might fetch anything up to R300 each (I don't know exact pricing as corns don't interest me) now the breeder breeds out some corns and he is at liberty to sell them at any price he pleases. Have you ever bread animals before? Doesn't sound like it. If you go late on a Sunday afternoon at an expo you will be able to pick up animals at ridiculously low prices, because some of the guys cant afford to keep stock back and carry on feeding the animals as this decreases profit.

The thing is as well the breeder comes to sell animals, if he needs do drop his prices he will. Have you ever exhibited at an expo? You cant go and set up huge display tanks for caimans etc, so temporary enclosures do just fine. Look at the big picture my friend. It wont help to get emotional about this because the pet trade is still a business. You need to make money.

[fredsmith]

Well said Whitelipp.

[DooMShortS]

I think we all do know that these guys are there to try and make profit. And well done for getting animals ready for an expo.

For me personally I just didn't like seeing what I saw. This was my first expo I went to, and as I mentioned I had mixed feelings about it all.

It's like you said Whitelipp, you get emotional. And it's good getting exposed to these animal. I just personally didn't truly expect to see these animals in such small cages.
In all fairness, you cant keep a cayman in a 2m pool.

Was fun being there and getting to know some of the people in the trade.

[NewtTZ]

You are right I have never bred any reptiles before mainly because I know that the market is saturated with Corn Snakes and Bearded dragons so I know I will end up with unwanted animals. If I did breed I would make sure I had the money for the pinks and space for cages and that there is a market for them before I even attempted to mate my snakes. Basically think before you breed. My problem with the caimans is not the size of the cage they are kept in at the show it is that caimans are not suitable for private keepers ( before anyone argues do some research first) Otherwise the show was OK.

[NewtTZ]

but I don't think you are understanding the expo concept so nicely

Don't want to start an argument but I have been going to Reptile Shows in this country since they began. I went to the 1st SOS show when it was like a flea market and every reptile show in Randburg since it started. So I think I understand.

[Whitelipp]

@ 15k a pair of caimans the guy that spends that and doesn't know how to keep it is an idiot.
A school kid won't buy it, private every day keepers won't buy it, the specialised keeper with money lying around will buy that.
And not just any keeper, cos those caimans were way over priced, a guy tt knows the market and the animals wil not buy them in the first place

[Treeby]

oky first of you have difrent markets so you cant just breed 1 kind of animal the market changes every year
you can expect us to set up huge cages for animals the stands are not that big , regarding the prices ,please keep a few hundred snakes even lizards and see what your outcome a month is then complain
you go to that shows just to buy cheap animals , to the breeders those animals are a income so please before you b*^&h and moan please think a little

[it_bit_me]

Sounds like a review Newt which show would you reccommend above the rest?

[Snakes4Africa]

Thank you for this post!
This started as a fair comment on venomous snake containers and has shifted to pricing and market conditions. For what it's worth, it was my stand selling the cheap watches, or the Corns for R100. Every single snake we sell has fed before we sell it. I have been around for a while and intend staying around. If you had stayed to observe a sale, you would have noticed the information passed on to the buyer. We spend a lot of time talking and not much time selling. The "special" price of R100 did exactly what it was intended to do: attracted attention! It made people look. There were Cornsnakes selling for R30 nearby but you didn't even see them! With so many exhibitors selling such similar produce, we do what we must to make a sale. We do not generate money from ticket sales and the stands are certainly not for free, neither is our petrol from Durban!
These expos are about bringing interested buyers and sellers together over a short period. Buyers can get some genuine bargains and sellers can sell their produce quicker than normal.
If we feel our Corns should sell for R100, why should we not sell them for that? They are bottom-end of the market snakes. Ironically, the ones that take the most work to sell as you have to explain to a newcomer. A guy who buys a R15 000 Ball python or a caiman generally knows his stuff, walks up and buys it, but the R100 sale will take half an hour.
I agree that there is some disagreeable stuff that goes on at these expos, but that is the nature of people. We are all different.

[Durban Keeper]

That is all very sensible Byron. Besides, I don't thing R100 is that 'cheap' for corns. I've seen countless people doing private sales the last few years for R50. What does it matter if they are morphs or not, this in most cases adds little value any more, I mean its harder to find a proper looking normal then a morph in these. Its no small task traveling all that way with all your animals to exhibit and then just have people complain that your selling your stock to cheap! Crazy, maybe them would prefer being ripped off and paying R300 for an American Corn Snake..

[rolandslf]

Corn Snakes are literrally a Dime A Dozen nowadays.
Ask Chantel on the Forum, one of the biggest Corn Snake Breeders in the Country about how the bottom has dropped out of Corn Snake values over the past 5 years.

I can remember the very first Expo in Durban, where a trio of Blood Pythons on day one was going for 6k, they were eventually sold at about 15h30 on the last day for 3k, Half Price. The snakes in this instance had been transported from wherever to Durban, touched and handled for 2 days by more than a few people, now just imagine the amount of stress overload the animal was experiencing, now add to this the stress of being transported back to wherever. The seller made a wise decision, dropped his price, and in so doing probably saved the snakes life, it is very possible that the journey home could of stressed it to the point of death.

You can also always buy snakes cheaper from a breeder than from a Pet Shop, and a lot of breeders sell mainly only at Expos.

[DooMShortS]

Also some guy was selling hatchling corn snakes for R100 not just normal but morphs as well he was pedaling them like he was selling cheap watches at a flea market. Bet those corns were not feeding and will not live very long with a new owner who bought on impulse same with the hatchling bearded dragons.

I did not personally take the comment as the snakes are sold too cheap. My biggest concern was if they were feeding properly or not.
I was not allowed to pick up my 2 ball pythons before it had been confirmed that they are good eaters.

The fact that a dad walks out of the expo with a 30/40cm cage and 3 beardies.

These are just some small things that I picked up when I was there. I don't want to start an argument, just stated what I saw and my personal opinion about it, exactly the same as NewtTZ. Fair enough, I lack the years of experience like most of the people on this forum. I have only been a keeper of snakes since December. I got my bearded dragon in Feb, and planning to get an Iguana in the near future. As with my previous post, it was just something new to me, and didn't expect to see such small cages(not complaining about it ), for being @ my first expo.

It takes one accident and all snake keepers will be painted with the same brush. If you are keeping venomous snakes please do so responsibly so that I may continue to keep my Boas and King Snakes in peace.

The massive concern was the tree vipers as NewtTZ stated. Keeping reptiles has been a major learning experience in my life(As I grew up with dogs and had grown very fond of them). It may not happen, but if someone got bit, and new rules came in to enforce permits for snakes, I don't want to stand a chance of losing my reptiles , not after the effort I put in to get them! (Especially because someone else is willing to make a mistake )