Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Snakes exotic to South Africa with venoms that are considered to be medically important.

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Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby Clive b » Tue May 07, 2013 8:49 pm

Hey guys


Im a bit confused regarding the classification between some species.

If anyone can assist I would greatly appreciate it.

Whats the difference between Macrovipera, Montivipera and vipera?

And why are the classified in these seperate groups?


Thanks
Clive
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby Bushviper » Wed May 08, 2013 10:46 am

Genus Macrovipera, Classified as large Palearctic vipers. 4 species are currently recognised.
Species Macrovipera deserti,
Species Macrovipera lebetina, Levantine Viper
Species Macrovipera mauritanica, Moorish Viper
Species Macrovipera schweizeri

Vipera:
Classified as true vipers. 27 species are currently recognised.
* Central Turkish mountain viper - Vipera albizona
* Iranian mountain viper - Vipera albicornuta
* Horned viper - Vipera ammodytes
* Baran's adder - Vipera barani
* Asp viper - Vipera aspis
* European adder - Vipera berus
* Bornmeullers viper - Vipera bornmeulleri
* Bulgardagh viper - Vipera bulgardaghica
* Darevsky's viper - Vipera darevskii
* Dinnik's viper - Vipera dinniki
* Caucasus viper - Vipera kaznakovi
* Lataste's viper - Vipera latastei
* Latif's viper - Vipera latifii
* Caucasian meadow viper - Vipera lotievi
* Atlas mountain viper - Vipera monticola
* Nikolsky's viper - Vipera nikolskii
* Palestine viper - Vipera palestinae
* Pontic adder - Vipera pontica
* Rock viper - Vipera raddei
* Baskian viper - Vipera seoanei
* Meadow viper - Vipera ursinii
* Ocellated mountain viper - Vipera wagneri
* Ottoman viper - Vipera xanthina
* Transcaucasian long-nosed viper - Vipera transcaucasiana
* Orlovi's viper - Vipera orlovi
* Steppe viper - Vipera eriwanensis
* Vipera magnifica

I could not find the Montivipera that you mention. This group of snakes is constantly being revised. I do believe the first major split came from research done by U. Jogger and HW Herrmann a good number of years ago.

You have forgotten about Daboia, Ovophis, Hypnale, Gloydius, Deinagkistrodon, Garthius, Calloselasma, Eristicophis and Azemiops who weer all under Vipera at some stage or another as well.
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby najarw » Wed May 08, 2013 10:56 am

A quick reference although not too indepth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viperinae
Also see Handbook of Venoms and Toxins of Reptiles : Mackessey. Chapter 2 gives a good update of taxonomy of snakes, Montivipera being synonymous with Macrovipera.
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby Clive b » Wed May 08, 2013 1:39 pm

Hi

Thanks for the replies

BV- Thanks for the information

Did not forget some just was not sure on these 3.
I also tried to find information on the Montivipera but could not find anything.
I was looking at an old issue of Ultimate Exotics from 2010 on Euro vipers and there were some vipers named Montivipera eg Montivipera raddei
but I see now it Vipera raddei

Monti also use to be to classified as "mountain vipers" ie Aremenian mountain viper
But not to sure if this information is correct.

Najarw - Thanks will def have a look at the information provided.
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby wadekilian » Wed May 08, 2013 9:16 pm

I thought Moorish Vipers were Daboia mauritanica?
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby WW » Thu May 09, 2013 7:21 am

There has been a fair bit of change in the genus-level classification of European vipers.

The best of the current evidence points towards the following arrangement:

Daboia: russelii, siamensis, palaestinae, mauritanica, deserti. Large vipers with intact supraocular shields. Many authors and checklists still retain mauritanica and deserti in Macrovipera - this change has been slow to percolate into the literature.

Macrovipera: lebetina, schweizeri (species-level classification liable to change). Large vipers with broken-up supraocular shields

Montivipera: xanthina, wagneri, raddei, albicornuta, albizona, bulgardaghica, bornmuelleri and kuhrangica. Montane vipers often with raised supraoculars

Vipera: all others.

There may well be further changes to come
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby Bushviper » Thu May 09, 2013 9:53 am

Thanks Wolfgang. I thought DNA sequencing would solve all our problems but they have just made it worse.
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby WW » Thu May 09, 2013 11:39 am

Bushviper wrote:Thanks Wolfgang. I thought DNA sequencing would solve all our problems but they have just made it worse.


Mitochondrial sequencing has provided a number of answers - just not those everybody was hoping for ;)

Of course the next generation of nuclear gene studies won't be far behind and no doubt produce some new surprises - that's the way science works, by testing hypotheses with new data.
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby najarw » Thu May 09, 2013 5:47 pm

For interest read through this:
http://www.cnah.org/pdf_files/1724.pdf
pages 5 to 10 should be of special interest.
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby Clive b » Fri May 10, 2013 12:00 pm

Thanks WW

Just a quick question, what do you mean by broken-up supraocular shields?
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby WW » Fri May 10, 2013 3:47 pm

Most snakes have a single large scale above the eye, called the supraocular. However, a few snakes this is broken up into a series of several smaller scales bordering the upper margin of the eye (e.g., puff adder) - that's what I meant.

Example in Macrovipera schweizeri: http://www.arkive.org/cyclades-blunt-nosed-viper/macrovipera-schweizeri/
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby brian petrie » Fri May 10, 2013 6:29 pm

Just to add, on Wolfgangs list of Montivipera there is also latifii.
Cheers,
Brian.
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby WW » Sat May 11, 2013 12:54 pm

brian petrie wrote:Just to add, on Wolfgangs list of Montivipera there is also latifii.
Cheers,
Brian.


Ooops, my bad, overlooked that one - thanks Brian!
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby Clive b » Sun May 12, 2013 4:58 pm

Thanks WW!
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Re: Euro vipers/ Middle East Vipers

Postby Clive b » Thu May 16, 2013 11:47 am

Hi Guys got another quick question.

How/can you tell the difference between the different ammodytes species?

I bought a Vipera ammodytes meridionalis yesterday, she is really beautiful but looks different to other meridionalis I have seen, so not sure if she is a meridionalis

Thanks
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