A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Here is the place to discuss anything not related to reptiles and does not fall into any other catagories.

Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Fooble » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:14 pm

Wolf777 wrote:Come on guys it's getting out of hand now, @Fooble: Don't be so harsh man everybody has their reasons to buy snakes wild or not.


That's a catch 22, one shouldn't b1tch and moan in the first place. Contribute to the solution not the problem.
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby joef_conner » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:27 pm

Agreed. Dont cry and then expect everyone on this site to take your side.

@Wolf777 - I understand you're trying to solve the problem but this is a debate and we'll probably never agree. My advice is pick a side and argue your point!
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Rob » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:57 pm

I would like to point out to everybody involved in this "debate" that the way you go back and forth pointing fingers and insulting one another does absolutely nothing but drag down the status of this forum and annoy people who come here to read quality posts where you can actually benefit from reading. I suggest that if any of you have any more "advice" for one another it be done via PM.
I am not the only one here sick and tired of having to page through immature posts such as many of these I assure you.

When I saw that there had been new posts added to Ursulas topic I expected to find an update to her situation, not this bickering and finger pointing. Unfortunately her well written and educated posts have been marred here by this.

Anybody ever wonder why people like WW, Horned Adder, snakepeter, Snakes4Africa and others have made themselves scarce?
Well I guess now we know.

Sort yourselves, your attitudes towards eachother, and your grammar and punctuation out chaps because its become embarrassing.
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Be more concerned with your character than your reputation. Your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are. ~Dale Carnegie
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby ClintonT » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:02 pm

Hi All,

I do not think it is a case of picking sides. It is more a case of business ethics which needs to be addressed. Whether one is buying CB or WC one does to some degree want or hope for an reasonably healthy animal. One also to some extent puts trust in the supplier. I myself have dealt with the person in question and to date have not had any issues.While I have not done an overwhelming amount of business with him,he has always been very helpful and gone out of his way to assist me. However I am not blind to the fact that a number of different people have and are having issues with him. I am currently in contact with a guy that is having such issues and has been for a month or more now.

It does not help the situation any that we going around bashing each other over semantics of wording etc. I think that those of us who know him better than most, need to rather appeal to his integrity and encourage him to do right by the people involved.
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Bushbaby » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:39 pm

Please guys, let's treat each other with respect.

No one likes to be done in, and I am sure it's happened to quite a number of us. Let's keep this clean and civil, then we don't need to lock this topic.
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby joef_conner » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:25 am

Well BB aparently this topic is already '"marred "? Personally I havent seen anything immature. All I've noticed is people taking other peoples comments WAY to seriously. I know hunter has every right to be angry and it's his decision to pursue the matter in the manner he has but I'm still sticking to my argument. I'm certainely not going to change my point of view because some people cant handle a little indecision on this post. If you dont like the conversation then PM adim!
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby dendroaspis » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:30 am

Guys, in fairness I have to agree with Rob.
This topic is a good one because it kind of highlights what could go wrong, and gives everyone a chance to either give advice from their own experiences or for people to learn from others experiences.
If you must argue, do so with civility.

@fooble: I understand your frustration, but remember that a p.c. is devoid of emotion and the person reading it will see things you may not have intended. Think before you write. I have personal experience with this ;)
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Fooble » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:38 am

dendroaspis wrote:Guys, in fairness I have to agree with Rob.
This topic is a good one because it kind of highlights what could go wrong, and gives everyone a chance to either give advice from their own experiences or for people to learn from others experiences.
If you must argue, do so with civility.

@fooble: I understand your frustration, but remember that a p.c. is devoid of emotion and the person reading it will see things you may not have intended. Think before you write. I have personal experience with this ;)


Cool i see where you're coming from, ive had that experience myself :P
I just find it upsetting that these guys find it acceptable to bad mouth the guy when he helps helps so many guys all the time, payment plans ect.
And when one complains about sickness in wild caught animals i mean surely one should know better.
Before it comes around again im done here :-)
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby hunter1 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:21 am

First up fooble, I really doubt the Boa was wild caught!!!!!I picked up the RI the first night I had her!!! I'm going to put this in very simple terms, as I would really like someone to explain to me how I am in the wrong.... I paid R1000 for each mole snake! Which he caught so didn't cost him much! There were 5 of them! So I wanted R700 out of each, he told me he sold one of them for R1200, thats a profit of R1500 for 1 mole snake! I don't know what he sold the others for! When I went round to see them he said two were at his home he was using them for snake shows! This was many many weeks ago! He has since told me several times I have your money! Come, and collect on friday, I go on friday, hes not there, doesnt answer his phone. When I finally get hold of him he's in bloem!!! Then again, and again I will be in the shop at this time, never there, and won't take my calls!! Fooble, and Joef, since you are buddies with this guy, please can you get him to pay my money!!! I will be happy with R2500, thats R1000 less!!! Thats what I am willing to sacrifise to never deal with this guy again, if I get paid I will not post anymore on this topic!!! Is that fair??? I have spoken to Ursula she still hasn't been paid her full amount!!!!We all know how long that has been going on now!!! Rob you can read the topic before you click on it, if you don't like it you don't have to read it!!!If I marred this post I will start a new post on the same subject!!! any objections???p.s. fooble the argument is not with sick wild snakes, but about paying for your stock, there are many people with the same problem with the same guy!!!End of story!!!!
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Krissy » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:00 am

Listen!!! my Bfriend, hunter 1, has been struggling for money for months now, he budgets every week for his snake food, even if he sacrifices something he wants to do!!!

We have been to 'the shop' everyday for the past 2 weeks & it hasnt been open, who is looking after the snakes!?!

This has gone on for far too long!!!! and i'm getting really annoyed about this myself!!!

My boyfriend regularly takes his snakes to the vet be it a snake or a bearded dragon...
Anyone who knows about him knows how passionate he is to his animals! It's amazing & i'm so proud of him!
We even have a rock monitor living in our room, who we take for walks on the beach!!!!
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Fooble » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:10 am

Krissy wrote:We hav been to 'the shop' everyday for the past 2 weeks & it hasnt been open, who is looking after the snakes!?!
This has gone on for far too long!!!! and i'm getting really annoyed about this myself!!!


Okay, his shop was open on Sunday i even got some stuff from there.

Honestly don't think we need another person jumping on the bandwagon here.

Maybe Mods need to lock this topic all has been said and now its going around in circles?
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Krissy » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:24 am

the shop doesn't even open on Sundays!!!! and he told us he was still in Bloem on Monday!!! so either you're lying, he's lying or you're the same person!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby joef_conner » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:03 am

@ Rob - My advice to you is dont comment if you cant contribute something constructive. Everyone else is trying to sort this out, explaining their points of view. Don't come along and tell us we're immature.

@ krissy and hunter. I'll try contact him.
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby Bushviper » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:04 am

Well the facts seem to be that Ursula did not get the money she was promised for snakes sold by this person.

He sold snakes which did not do well within an very short time after being bought. They were taken back and the client did not get his money. He did promise to pay but has not done so yet.

There is a saying about business "let the buyer beware". If you buy an animal and it is sick then that is your problem because you should check it out before you get it. This is where the buyers reputation comes into question. If he says it is a male then you would hope it is a male. If he says it is healthy then you would assume it is. If he offers to take it back then he should pay you what you think it is worth to him or exchange it for something of similar value.

Giving out snakes on consignment is a bad business decision. I have never yet had this work out well. If he cannot afford the animal to resell it then he should open another business because I cannot sponsor him in his endevours.

Even adverts on this forum can be misleading. I have seen "het for pastel" Ball pythons and "het for tiger" retics being offered in the past. We just delete them and warn the seller. I even had someone selling "Iguanas from Bob Clark" and he does not, nor has he ever, kept lizards. Anyone selling various species that only occur in Namaqualand must not expect me to believe they were legally collected, feeding well and healthy.

Last week I nearly paid in advance for some jaguar carpet pythons only to find out the buyer did not actually have them despite him sending me photographs of the supposed animals. Luckily he told me in time and said he had been let down by a dodgy dealer in the Cape.

There is still not a good custom for getting snakes sent to you. If you pay first and the person does not have the snakes you are out of pocket. If you send the snakes to someone and he does not pay then you are out of pocket and dont have the snake. This is where reputation becomes important. Usually if you are unhappy when the snake arrives then you phone the supplier immediately and either arrange to send it back or negotiate another deal. Those with a good reputation will replace the animal excluding the freight costs or else arrange that it gets picked up by someone in that area and re-imburse you. Generally the seller holds the cards and they get paid first. That is why it is so important to buy from people who have a good reputation.

Those with a good reputation will survive and others will eventually fall by the wayside.

Imagine you are buying a snake from Pythonadipsas (sorry to use you for this). You pay him and he says he will send it with his buddy that weekend. What are the chances that he is going to do you in over a few hundred or even thousnd rands? If he cannot send it or the snake gets eaten by a mate you know he will refund your money immediately. That is why he can charge a bit more for his snakes which you know will be sexed correctly and healthy and if not he will accept the responsibility to make this right.

Buying from Joe Soap because he is cheaper is not always a good idea. Often if you go to the expos you can see who are the people that you want to deal with and which ones are not proud of what they have to sell.
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Re: A Warning Do not let this happen to you.

Postby froot » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:39 pm

I stand by what Rob says. The punctuation abuse in this topic is driving me nuts. This '!!!' and this '???' and this '!!?!" doesn't belong here. Posts are also bordering on insulting too, especially yours Fooble. Like I said I stand by what Rob says.

Amidst a deal it is NOT ok to treat a customer like a mushroom (keep them in the dark and feed them cr@p). According to what's been said he has had ample time to keep people up to date with where they stand (good news/bad news - doesn't matter). Some of you seem to think that it is now suddenly 'ok' for a person to neglect people he is in deals with because he is going through a 'bad time'. When we let unforeseen circumstances lower the level of ethical acceptability then we need to take a serious look at ourselves because in effect we are just advertising to the world that our moral integrity has now become negotiable.

If you owe someone money, stop being so dam stupid and keep them in the dark because for crying in a bucket this is exactly what's going to happen, people are going to get angry with you. DUH!

Buying a wild caught animal from someone who does shows with them is also - not very well thought over. You cannot pass blame for that.
Selling a wild caught animal that you do shows with is basically nothing but taking advantage and trying to make a quick profit.

This whole thing stinks, both sides of it, and guess who gets to lose the most? You guys may be going through tough times and waving money bye bye but the animals are busy paying with their lives. Anybody stop to think about that? Doesn't seem like it.

Keep your emotions out of this topic and for heavens sake stop this rediculous !!! !?! !!!!! ???? nonsense.
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