Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Bushviper » Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:59 pm

Da Twista wrote: Just briefly thinking about the rattler population as it's quite a problem in certain parts of the USA, cal kings are another alternate solution to help the rattler population.


Nope you were not thinking ! Where do you come up with this rubbish? Rather dont post stuff like this on the forum if you have no idea what is being discussed.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Da Twista » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:03 pm

And as I've read quite a bit on, king snake's primary diet in the wild are rattlesnakes, unless many articles I've read are incorrect.

Besides, just briefly thinking about the situation, I would have investigated a route like this rather than having them killed by a group of people so they could make money off of their skin. Hence why I mentioned it.

On a side note, as an admin I would think encouraging debates on topics would be a far better idea rather than insulting and shooting forum users down.

Forgive my arrogance, I may have been wrong.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby croteseeker » Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:50 pm

I recently spoke with a young man who provided two Timber rattlesnakes to one of the Pennsylvania round-ups. This, in and of itself, is enough to receive a verbal flogging in the US. But I did learn some useful information that definitely applies to this subject....

At this recent round-up, only 44 snakes were brought in. Only males. Not all of which were rattlesnakes. All were returned to the wild. I've said before that these rattlesnake round-ups have the potential to be turned into educational, rather than sensational, venues from which we can reach the greater population. Numbers like the ones from this round-up only serve to cement this opinion in my mind.

Before anyone lights their torch or reaches for their pitchfork, let me run some numbers by you real quick. Every year, I come across dozens of ignorant rednecks who proudly brag about the number of rattlesnakes that they've killed this year. Often, I meet people who claim to have killed ten or more in a given year. These are just the ones that I meet, there are many more out there. These people make up a good percentage of the attendees at these types of events. So, conceivably, if you have only 500 people (underestimated) show up at your event, it would seem likely that you need only reach less than one percent of the total attendees in order to offset the environmental impact made by your 44 snakes. All of the others that you reach will be a bonus.

Even better: keep the damn snakes, breed them, use the same ones, year after year, stop capturing new specimens, turn these events into rattlesnake festivals, rather than round-ups, and watch the environmental footprint shrink.

These events draw huge crowds and have the potential to be converted in such a way that they be used for good, rather than evil. I admit that this will take a serious flip of the proverbial script, but this device is already in place for us to take advantage of. Why not do so?

Now, as for the cal kings.....

First off, Lampropeltis getula has many subspecies, ranging across much of North America. So even if this was a viable solution to the rattlesnake, "problem," in the US, you could just as easily do it with native subspecies. The problem, as many kingsnake keepers will tell you, is that kingsnakes are not at all picky. Their diet does not consist mainly of rattlesnakes, but rather, includes them. They will eat anything they can get down. This includes all of our other snake and lizard species. Not a solution at all, but just an added problem.

The best solution that I can think of, if there is even a real problem (which I sincerely doubt), is illustrated by a meeting I had with four Texas herpers, earlier this year. We, Arizona herpers, made good sport of their knee-high, snake-proof boots. Where we grew up, we were taught to watch where we put our feet. Not rely on some four-hundred-dollar pair of magic boots. The same goes for the rattlesnake massacres that take place in Texas.
Watch your step. We owe that degree of respect to our environment. These animals didn't move into our neighborhoods. We moved into theirs.

Sorry for ranting. I'll crawl back out into my desert now. :lol:
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Roadtrash » Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:18 am

Sometime a good rant is what is needed. I've tried to teach a lot of people over the years not to kill the snakes but it is hard to get through to some of them. People have these ingrained ideas that they learned from their parents when they were young that snakes were evil and dangerous. They taught the children this to keep them from picking up things that might be deadly. I understand why they tried to teach us these things but I wish they had done it in a different way, education rather than fear.

As for these people at these roundups being rednecks that is not always true. I think that you would find that most of the people attending these things are not rednecks. The ones putting them on probably are but the attendees are from all walks of life and most are not rednecks at all. They are interested in seeing the snakes and most are curious and want to learn about them but what they get from the people putting on the shows is usually bad information. I agree that these roundups or whatever you want to call them could and should be a place to educate the public about the snakes rather than a place to instill fear and revulsion.

One more thing, you mentioned that some of these guys were wearing snake bite boots. Years ago I bought a pair of leggings for this same purpose and wore them when scouting for deer before the season started. That morning I felt something hit my leg and looked down and there was a cotton mouth next to a tree that I had just past. If I had been looking instead of trusting in the leggings I would have seen this snake because it was lying in the open not even trying to hide. This was the first time I had ever put them on and it was also my last. Since that day I have gone back to my sandals and shorts like I always did before and I have seen a lot of snakes but long before I got close enough to let one strike. It's amazing the false sense of security that these things give a person when you wear them.

Well enough of a rant from me as well so I will also crawl back into my little part of the desert.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Bushviper » Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:50 am

Da Twista wrote:And as I've read quite a bit on, king snake's primary diet in the wild are rattlesnakes, unless many articles I've read are incorrect.


Da Twista Yes the articles you have read are incorrect.

The roundups in some areas are not the same as in others. Some might actually release the snakes afterwards although that does not ensure that they will survive. At others there are hundreds that are killed and the documentary proof of that is legendary. The "knowledge" and I use that term very loosely, that is spread at these roundups does not go along the lines of "these are an integral part of the environment" but more along the lines of well these are demons and need to be killed. May the hanta virus become a major problem in these areas!

At least one of the biggest proponents of the killing and a feature on Rattlesnake Republic is now cripple so that goes a long way to reducing his affect on the environment. Our hopes that he would be killed were not realised but we can hold thumbs for the future.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Deimist » Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:11 pm

Regarding what Roadtrash said

I have also tried to teach people not to kill snakes, but a lot of the time I'm simply met with the answer: "The bible says we should kill them all"
When I get an answer like that I get FURIOUS, but I just walk away because I'm afraid I will loose it and strangle them.

How can you argue against this? If you try, the person simply says that you are going against the bible and insulting their religion. :smt013
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Roadtrash » Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:12 pm

Yes a lot of people believe because of the serpent in the story of Adam and Eve then that means all snakes are evil. I was taught about Adam and Eve as well but even though my mother was deathly afraid of snakes she never taught me that snakes in general were evil or bad. Because of their religious beliefs some people will never accept that snakes are not bad. Even when you try to explain that they are also some of God's creatures these people won't accept the argument.

All we can do is keep trying one person at a time to educate and inform people that snakes are a needed part of our environment. Granted it won't be easy with all these roundups going on but all we can do is try.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Jamster » Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:33 am

What if Satan had appeared in the garden of eden as, say for instance, a bunny? Would people purposefully drive over them or sever there heads off with a spade? I doubt it... I tend do disagree strongly with people who use religion as an excuse to kill for no reason.

I think the relationship between rattlers and cali kings is quite an interesting one. Think about it for a second, Cali kings are one of the snakes we recommend to first time snake keepers and the younger people in the snake community. Yet this harmless little snake has one of the most notorious, well known and feared deadly venemous vipers for lunch!
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
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1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Roadtrash » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:12 pm

If the Bible said bunnys then a lot of people would indeed think of them as evil. It's really hard to change a persons mind when religion is involved. All we can do is try.

As for the king snakes, they are without doubt one of the most interesting animals out there. Like you said they have one of the deadly vipers for lunch. Makes you have a lot of respect for the little guys.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby blood boy » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:48 pm

bloody bastards do not deserve the right to work with such beautiful animals every day I hope in the near future some one skins them
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Roadtrash » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:59 am

Well, myself I don't wish them any harm but I do wish that somehow they could be educated. Although these particular people will probably never be educated. Maybe if people just get a decent movement going these things can be stopped.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby croteseeker » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:32 am

Roadtrash wrote:As for these people at these roundups being rednecks that is not always true. I think that you would find that most of the people attending these things are not rednecks.


I've argued this point, as well. I'm not trying to call all of these people ignorant rednecks. I'm just saying that ignorant rednecks aren't likely to skip these events. :lol:
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Roadtrash » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:29 pm

Well, you're probably right there they would most likely be at the events.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby froot » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:06 pm

Rednecks like to kill stuff, to put it bluntly, I've seen them embark on our country with their collection of ordinance for hunting trips, it's something in their blood. Try turn their attention to the asian carp invasions in your rivers? Plenty stuff to kill there.
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Re: Your opinion on Rattlesnake Republic

Postby Roadtrash » Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:48 pm

Asian carp roundups? Hmmmmm.... I guess you could use them for chicken feed or maybe fertilizer but other than that I don't know. Maybe Asian carp hatbands or belts.;-)
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