Leo Habitat... ?

[insaniac]

I've always seen Leos in Dessert setups... since I started with reptiles...

The other day, I went to Chameleon Village and saw they keep theirs in a Semi - Tropical environment...

I'm talking bark chips, wooden hides, real fern plants, the works...

I saw all of them had all their toes and seemed quite content with this change.

What I want to know is...

Why is the norm dessert when they clearly fair better in a more humid environment... ?

( Sorry if this has been discussed before )

[Fooble]

Insaniac as im sure you are aware Leopard geckos come from the east namely Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan ect.

With this being said it seems the norm to keep them on sand like desert sand ect.

When in fact the desert's which they inhabitant more closely resemble rocky and pebbly hard ground.
I have had "The Herpetoculture of Leopard Geckos" By Philippe de Vosjoli, Ron Tremper, Roger Klingenberg
This is the pretty much essence of leopard gecko keeping by the Fathers of leopard gecko husbandry.

In the text there are various photos of keeping leopard geckos as you suggested you saw, this is infact better then keeping them on sand and of course with a little extra humidity as you noted no missing toes ect as opposed to the dry humidity deprevied way many people keep leopard geckos causes bad sheds.

I think it has allot to do with Pet shops as the sell customers the works Sand, UV lights, desert "wood" just so the enclosure looks all derserty and basically is "nice" to look at.

Just my 2 cents.

[Groenslang]

Glad you brought up the topic Insaniac, I am getting some AFTs hopefully in October or so and I am going to start their vivs now already. I was thinking of changing my leo setups as well so if I can do a setup with more real plants and less desert I would be stoked! I've always wondered why we kept leos in such dry terrariums when they spent 80% of their time in the humid hides. (I have both a humid hide and a dry hide at the warm end of my vivs and both my leos are ALWAYS in the humid hide.)

[Fooble]

Groenslang keeping AFT's like insaniac mentioned he saw the leo's if PERFECT for Fat tails as they are from Africa which is far more humid with that require more humidity the the Leo's do.

[insaniac]

Why, or should I ask, how... did this norm innitiate itself.

I understand Foobles point of them coming from Neo Indian Europe and people getting the enviromental impression from there, but the only real "desserty" area is Afghanistan and not even all of it is barren...

What I struggle to understand is how does this manifest itself into a global trait... ?

[Bushviper]

Insaniac they do come from deserts but I spoke to someone who went collecting them and he says it is a "rocky desert" but if you pick up a rock it is moist underneath and there are earthworms in the soil. Much of the calcium they get is from snail shells which have baked white in the sun. If snails occur there then work out how arid you think it is going to be?

AFT need it even more moist. Look at their colours and you can imagine them on a moist forest floor covered with rotting leaves and dark soil.

[mgiddings]

Thanks for this topic I was thinking the same thing. What would you guys then recommend as the perfect setup? Would bark chips and live plants work the best? Or some how meet inbetween desert and tropical?

[Groenslang]

I was planning on making plant 'bowls' that I would be able te remove in one piece to ease cleaning. These 'bowls' I want to be able to place in grout covered polystyrene 'rocks' so that the bowl itself would be hidden. If that makes sense? It would also match the hides. It is going to take a lot of trial and error but if I get it right it should look awesome. As a substrate for the leos I use slate tile. Its easy to cut with a masonry grinding disc, easy to clean and the impaction issue is none.

For the AFTs I was planning on using peat or something similar that I could keep relatively moist and mist every now and then. APPARENTLY they arn't prone to ingesting the substrate like leos.

Please excuse me if this post looks wrong, typed it on my phone... Damn internet cap!

[it_bit_me]

I think it's amazing to see the places some of these everyday animals come from. I didn't imagine kingsnakes to live in desert areas and couldn't think that amazon tree boas were found in grasslands.

[insaniac]

I am currently looking at aquiring some Leo's... Not for breeding or anything, just coz they're so cool...

I have some thoughts on what their enclosure should look like, more like a rocky savannah than a dessert...

Live plants and lots of climbing space, no need for a moist hide I reckon, cos the whole enclosure would be " moist "

Was thinking about putting in a Waterfall too... ( still pondering on that one )

It's just a thought at the moment, but I'll post some pics once I start.

[Fooble]

I am currently looking at aquiring some Leo's... Not for breeding or anything, just coz they're so cool...

I have some thoughts on what their enclosure should look like, more like a rocky savannah than a dessert...

Live plants and lots of climbing space, no need for a moist hide I reckon, cos the whole enclosure would be " moist "

Was thinking about putting in a Waterfall too... ( still pondering on that one )

It's just a thought at the moment, but I'll post some pics once I start.

A word of advise is often simply is better,
meal worms tend to escape and get "lost" in fancy set ups and crickets will hide very well making ti difficult for the geckos to find them.

You do need a humid hide in the 70-90% range i wouldn't keep leo's in a very humid environment constantly though.

Waterfall = bacteria play ground.

[insaniac]

I have briefly kept them before with the dessert setup and saw that the feeding bowl with the high sides really worked well...so no real worries on the food getting lost there.

The hide can be contemplated a bit, but I reckon you are right. They do need a specific spot where it's more humid etc. than in the rest of the hide.

The Waterfall I have had in almost every lizard enclosure that was ever big enough for it to fit in and I've had no problems... Cresties, Chinese Water Dragons, Chameleons...

I would think that it is even less of a danger seeing that the water is runing and moving around instead of just staying stagnant... ? When cleaned regularly it shouldn't present a problem... ( still, just contemplating it but not seeing any reason not to so far )

[Fooble]

OKay sure if you have done it numerous times then i guess you know what you are doing and cleaning it often helps.

I have seen them in use with little floating turds in them from lack of being cleaned and still the animal must drink from that yuk.

[Bushviper]

Leopard geckos do not know what running water is so rather avoid the waterfall. The humidity should not be that high. As stated they do come from a rocky desert area with micro habitats that are moist.

[insaniac]

So, let me see if I got this right...

Looking for a humidity of around 50-60%

More a rocky outcrop than full on bark chips etc. ( by the way, what would then be a good substrate medium... Riversand ? )

2 or 3 Mossy, more moist hides around the enclosure with a liftable flap or something to check on them.

Would you guys think it to be overkill if I put in a misting system instead of the Waterfall ?