Expo Vendor Ethics

[Rabid.Evo8691]

I cannot find a relevant category that would let me post this message but because I consider myself an upcoming Leopard gecko breeder and am opening a closed breeding facility I thought the Leopard gecko category will have to do.


I have been apart of this hobby for a relatively short period (less than a decade) and because I have not profited from breeding yet I consider myself a customer first hand. What I have seen over the years of attending expos ( never leaving empty handed) is that most breeders don't sell their animals with a receipt of any kind. I am only talking from first hand experience and have not bought a reptile by every breeder that has had a vendor but the dozen vendors I have acquired animals from have never gave me low documentation of proof of sale.

CNA Sells receipt books at a very low price ( considering how much a reptile sells at generally speaking) and there are many established business' that provide custom stamps with whatever wording you want stamped (also very cheap).

Remember Reptile breeders deal with live animals and with anything living complications can arise and in order for the customer and breeder to protect themselves from either party shamming each other certain steps should be taken.

I honestly hope to see more breeders in the future incorporate this into their practices to save their names in future from being tarnished.

It is effective in every other field of business and should be done with live animals too.

Likewise with customers: Ask for receipts!!! Inspect your animals before animal/ cash exchange occurs!!! No matter how long you have waited to get the specific animal and how excited you are do your part.

Breeders are human and also prone to make mistakes.


Kind regards
Dylan
Rabid Evolution

[wadekilian]

If it's the quality of the animals for sale that you're worried about, I spoke to one of the organizers about the quality of stock at the expos and he said if someone sells poor stock, they are asked not to come back. In the reptile world, your name is everything and the benefits of a good, reliable name last a lot longer than a quick buck. The reptile industry in SA is a relatively small world and it would be in your best interest to keep your name as clean as possible.

On almost every occasion where I've bought something / was there while a friend bought something from an expo, the breeder has offered to replace an animal if something goes wrong (i.e it doesn't feed as promised, it dies suddenly, is incorrectly sexed etc). Those are the things that get you repeat customers in any case.

While I do think you are within your rights to ask the breeder for some kind of proof of sale, IMO, I personally just don't think it's completely necessary.

[Repzotix Pet Hyper]

As a breeder and reseller of animals we find it easier to keep track if we do provide a receipt, the only problem with guarantee on livestock is that people don't think, if a snake doesn't eat we will help or replace if necessary but coming to a breeder 5 months after the expo and saying "oh that snake I bought at the last expo has not eaten" is not the way to do it, there are also the guys who think it's ok to leave the new snake in the car while we do our monthly shopping for four hours, keeping them warm and cooking them are two different things. We have sold animals that we have kept for ages with no problems and customers kill them in 2 days, the question is where do breeders draw the line?

[Rabid.Evo8691]

Both parties need to be protected in some way. Is a persons word gold in the society we live in today?

On the consumer/buyers side don't you think an animal to the value of 5k should have some form of proof of purchase? Every now and again even the most reputable of us is prone to do something dodgy. There are a few major American breeders whose names are on the line because of what I am trying get people aware of. A persons reputation doesn't reimburse someones hard earned cash. Not everybody is rich.

On a reputed breeders side. Anybody can buy a reptile, keep it poorly for 3 months and probably it will refuse food or even die and I do find it retarded to even consider thinking it is the breeders problem.
Without a receipt I could buy a reptile from Jon and find out in less than a week it has health issues. The problem is I can't remember the breeder I got it from (which a receipt would help) oh I remember Jane sold me the sick snake ( another reputed snake breeder).
The problem that arises is Jane can't remember if she did or didn't sell them the sick animal because she doesn't give receipts either. So either her name gets tarnished or she gives a replacement that wasn't her problem to begin with.

I read a similar article on a fauna classified BOI.
An unhappy customer could ruin all your hard work in an instant.

I Just think with the biggest expos in our country around the corner this could prevent a lot of unnecessary headaches.

[rolandslf]

A very interesting topic. There are no guarantees with livestock, of which reptiles form part.
I bought for instance a BP from a very reliable breeder (He is also a very good friend), and after about 6 months it had not eaten.
It definitely eat before because it was at 1364 grams in weight, it refused to eat and after the 6 months had dropped weight to 1027 grams.
I took it back to him and he could have used the no guarantee excuse, or refused to take it back from me, which I think to be well within his rights.

To cut a long story short, it ate that same night back with him, and ate again 2 weeks later. Remembering that I had tried F/T, Pre-Killed and Live with a variety of different Rodent species. There can only have been something wrong with my husbandry that it did not like.

I personally think that if you have bought a Reptile and nothing is wrong with it after about 2 weeks, then the Breeder/Seller should be exempt from any responsibility.

[Rabid.Evo8691]

I totally agree after a certain limited time an animal can't be the breeders responsibility. Poor husbandry kills reptiles fast. I saw a healthy pair of Eyed lizards develop severe mbd in 3 months at a "pet shop".

I just think that there should just be an ethic that breeders follow.

Another example is I got a hatchling corn snake from a breeder I get all my colubrids from. This specific snake didn't realise where its water dish was or what its purpose was. When my fiance and I came home from work it was badly dehydrated and lethargic. When we contacted the breeder he without hesitation said he would give us another one. Later that even my fiance dipped the snakes head in the water and it began to drink. The next day it was healthy like usual. It was a great response from the breeder and we informed him the snake was just dehydrated. The whole situation was handle professionally by both sides. Every new hatchlings we get we now head dip into the waterdish and most drink straight away.