couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby Bjorn » Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:26 am

Very nice! Congratulations.
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby arcadies » Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:06 am

nice man, congrats.
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby Loslappie » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:03 pm

Well done !! congrats!
If it hasnt yet, it will!
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby xerophak » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:23 pm

THANKS!everybody , this moment is cluth four eggs = 2 leucistic and 2 pretty hetero ,,,very by patient next more pics ,,,,,,
the eclosion 2 eggs leucistic in 01:00h , 1 egg hetero 7:00h and more egg hetero 15.00h , lololo by patient more 13 eggs sorprise next ......
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby K_N_U_T » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:50 pm

Hello everybody,

this is the first time that I post something on this very nice site which I´ve found some days ago.

@Xerophak
Congratulations for your hatchlings. They and the parents look very nice but I must say that I don´t think that these one´s are leucistic.
The mother on this pic
http://www.sareptiles.co.za/gallery/alb ... 133ke7.jpg
is definitely not leucistic. Real leucistic one´s are white as snow or a paper!
In my eye´s she´s a Suphan Phase kaouthia and the father is heterozygot for Suphan Phase.

The hatchlings are very bright/white but in 1-2 Years I think there you can see that they´ll get a little bit darker and the colour will change into a creme colour.

I breed Suphan phase kaouthia and amelanistic one´s know for some years and I know how they look like. Here are some pics of my breeding pair and the hatchlings:

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 613037.jpg hatchlings
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 643639.jpg amel Suphan Phase
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 343661.jpg amel Suphan Phase
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 326435.jpg Suphan Phase (not leucistic!)
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 653830.jpg Suphan Phase
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 313132.jpg 2-year old Suphan Phase
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 386632.jpg adult amel
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 333238.jpg adult amel
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben ... 383534.jpg adult female Suphan Phase

[If anyone is interested...in some months I´ll have hatchlings for sale].

By the way... I don´t understand this sentence I´ve read in another thread here:

((((your kaouthia is a breed between albino and stuphan. leucistics do not exists. believe me!))))


Of course there exists real leucistic kaouthias BUT it is very hard to find REAL one´s because the most offered leucistic kaouthias are (just) suphan Phase one´s.
If you´ll breed a "normal" (with pattern and monocel etc.) amel (albino) kaouthia with a Suphan Phase kaouthia then you´ll get "normal" looking (with pattern and monocel etc.) juveniles which are double het for amel (albino) and suphan phase!
When you´ll breed these juveniles to each other you´ll get suphan phase ones (very bright without any pattern and monocel; with dark eyes), amel suphan phase kaouthias (pure white with red eyes) and "normal" looking kaouthias which are heterozygot.

But I´ve a question to this picture:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4983/1004521an8.jpg
There I can see a hatchling of Naja kaouthia (Suphan Phase or leucistic) and a hatchling of Naja naja?! Is this correct?
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby Bushviper » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:18 pm

Hello Knut.

You have some really nice specimens there. These colours are very confusing where some colours are just variations and others are mutations.

I am sure you have many people here who envy your snakes.
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby K_N_U_T » Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:35 pm

Hello Bushviper,

thank you very much.

Yes I know the huge confusion about the colour forms of Naja kaouthia.
The Suphan Phase is, as we know, just a local colour form of Naja kaouthia.
The amels or axantic one´s are colour mutations. And when you then breed a colourmutation to a Suphan Phase you got complete diferent looking hatchlings as if you would breed a colourmutation to a "normal" kaouthia.
The other problem is, that many breeder give her kaouthia "morphs" her own names. So there exist some different denotation´s for the same "morph".

The biggest problem but is that many people sell "normal" suphan Phase as leucistic ones. I don´t want to assum it that they do it consciously...often they don´t know it better and other even know/think that all bright kaouthias only can be leucistic. But so you have the problem that 99% of the offered leucistic kaouthias are suphan phase one´s.

And now, since in the USA the first red eyed leucistic ones are sold, everyone have these here (in the EU etc.) for sale :roll: But in this case I think 100% of these here offered red eyed leucistic are (just) amelanistic Suphan Phase one´s. But for the other one´s you´ll get more money.
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby Bushviper » Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:31 pm

I have my doubts about red eyed leucistics. Red eyes are as a result of melanin not being produced (amelanistic) and leucistic means there is almost no colour (not just black) but the eyes retain the melanocytes which give the retina and the iris its colour. If they are selling them as red eyed leucistics then it means they are both leucistic and amelanistic.

In other animals leucistic can produce multi coloured birds or white lions. They do not have red eyes.

The Suphan phase may be a type of leucism which is reduced just like many of the "blonde" animals found such as the giraffes and impala which have light skins but are not pure white. This however is not the same as hypomelanism but difficult to separate.
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby deleray » Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:30 pm

Of course there exists real leucistic kaouthias BUT it is very hard to find REAL one´s because the most offered leucistic kaouthias are (just) suphan Phase one´s.
If you´ll breed a "normal" (with pattern and monocel etc.) amel (albino) kaouthia with a Suphan Phase kaouthia then you´ll get "normal" looking (with pattern and monocel etc.) juveniles which are double het for amel (albino) and suphan phase!
When you´ll breed these juveniles to each other you´ll get suphan phase ones (very bright without any pattern and monocel; with dark eyes), amel suphan phase kaouthias (pure white with red eyes) and "normal" looking kaouthias which are heterozygot.


Hi,

I found your post very interesting. I have a few pairs of kaouthia (normal, albino and het albino/suphan). The het albino/suphan are a product of albino and suphan which look like normals (with monacle etc) but are lighter and prettier. If i read your post correctly the result of breeding the het albino/suphans to each other would be suphans, amel suphans and het normals?

I think this is correct but would like to get confirmation.

Many thanks.
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby deleray » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:29 pm

Well, the lack of response prompted me to do some research elsewhere and I came across this for those that are interested (http://venomland.forumotions.com/naja-f ... t41-25.htm) - hope I can cross post?

A very interesting topic indeed. Peter, it appears the 1.1 Albino/suphans I have came from this batch which means I need to hang on for 4 years for a 1 in 16 possible chance of amel suphan ;-) or buy a lottery ticket!

Cheers.
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby K_N_U_T » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:19 am

Hello deleray and sorry for my late answer but on the last Day´s I´ve been ill.

So...yes...when you breed a double het (suphan Phase and amel) to each other you´ll get hets, suphan Phase, and (with luck) amel suphan phase.
Here it is again (NN is a "normal" kaouthia, a -> amelanistic and s -> suphan):
Image

Yes, the Thread on venomland is very interesting. And it is interesting that it was so hard to find out how suphan phase occur.
There a further questions as why exist intermediate forms there?!

But you dont´t have to hang on for 4 years...just wait some months...then I hope I´ll have some nice white kaouthias with red eyes ;-)
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby deleray » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:48 pm

Thanks K.N.U.T
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby xerophak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:02 am

K_N_U_T wrote:Hello everybody,


But I´ve a question to this picture:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/4983/1004521an8.jpg
There I can see a hatchling of Naja kaouthia (Suphan Phase or leucistic) and a hatchling of Naja naja?! Is this correct?



no!! mate, they are naja kaoutia , the two..


yes now i think are stuphan fase my kaouthias.

a question: again Today the male he want to copulate with the female, is soon? is good?
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby xerophak » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:32 am

all pics is naja kaouthia


Image


Image


Image


Image
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Re: couple N.kaouthia leucistic

Postby Bushviper » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:19 am

I have seen banded N. kaouthia but yours seems to have the monocles going down the body. Very nice.
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