My Very First Hot

[Hustler]

Yeah it was my first snake death I just hope it was nothing that I might have done wrong because then I'd really feel #$%^.

[deleray]

I am convinced there is a problem with the albino bloodline in this country. WDB's are one of the easiest snakes to keep, I have kept many in the past and about a year ago got two albino's. Both ended up rolling for no apparent reason. Also had problems feeding. Won't touch the albino's or hets with a barge pole again to be honest.

[croteseeker]

Umm........I know this is old, but........That's not an atrox.

[croteseeker]

Just blew it up. My bad. (dons jackass ears.) I can see the banding at the tail now. Interesting pattern on this guy, though.

[croteseeker]

Just stopped in to reread this thread and thought it comical to see South Africans talking about the severity of crote bites and C. atrox bites, in particular. Don't get me wrong, I keep and have kept rattlesnakes for years, I've observed well over a hundred, in the wild, this year alone, and I'm well-aware of the potency of their venom. It just seems like sort of a moot point when I see the number of elapids in collections over there. I'd much sooner take a nip from an atrox than a mamba. Even field herping in the Sonoran desert, miles from a hospital, most victims will survive crote bites long enough to get to help. Very rarely do people die here of snake bite. SA averages something like 15 deaths per year, right? From a fairly low number of bites. We average eight thousand bites and 6-12 fatalities. That's in all of the US. A quarter of the time crotes don't envenomate, and our only elapid has a terribly inefficient venom delivery system. I don't wish to sound like I'm trying to downplay anyone's concerns, it just seems to me that you are much more likely to be killed by something you step on in your front yard. I don't know.....Just seems funny from my standpoint.

[Qball]

The simple fact of the matter is yes, some of our elapids may be more "potent" if you'd like to call it that, but we also have access the the required antivenom. Very few people can get hold of or more likely can't afford imported antivenom for rattlesnakes. Hence the fact we view them as more risky... The fact that the bite to death ratio seems so great probably has to do with the fact that the majority of bites occur in rural areas, many hours from cities or towns. Keeping a snake that u cant get antivenom for is like riding a motorbike without a helmet. You can easily do it, but when you have an accident, things aren't going to end well....

[croteseeker]

Right on. Thank you, Qball. I thought you guys kinda sounded like Americans telling some kid about his new mamba, but your response is very helpful. In the US we have CroFab in almost every hospital. Plus a new Mexican antivenin in trials. Hell, we even have pretty good stocks of elapid antiventins. Lack of treatment certainly evens the odds. Mamba kills in an hour +/-, crotes considerably more, but dead is dead. Plus the crote bite would be a much worse death. You've been most helpful. Guess I'd be looking twice at my crotes if I lived overseas.

[Bushviper]

The other big factor is that the CroFab or even the ANTIVIPMYN Instituto Bioclon is hellishly expensive and they need to be administered numerous times due to the short life cycle of the medication. When I spoke to Dr Sean Bush about this he mentioned that the bleeding can continue and flair up after a few days even with enough antivenom being administered on arrival at the hospital.

Local medical aids do not cover this medication either so be prepared to cough many thousands of Rands for each vial if you can get it.

[croteseeker]

The other big factor is that the CroFab or even the ANTIVIPMYN Instituto Bioclon is hellishly expensive and they need to be administered numerous times due to the short life cycle of the medication....

This is very true. Crote bites are known to take a great deal of antivenin to treat, even with a well-matched treatment regimen. It's not uncommon for over twenty vials to be used. At something like $800 USD, per vial, the cost of the antivenin alone pushes the cost of the average crote bite to around $60,000 USD. I'm not sure what that comes to in Rands, but I'm sure the shipping and the 18 month lead-time to manufacture one lot of CroFab doesn't help matters.

This next part is a little off-subject, but still relevant so bear with me here. In order to save time, money, and hopefully lives, I try to always remember to warn crote keepers about one species, in general. The reason for this is some misleading advertising the company continues to use. Crofab is marketed for the treatment of all North American crote bites resulting in mild to moderate envenomation. My problem with this statement is that it has been reported to have reduced to non-existent efficacy towards the bite of C. molossus. Here in the US, that's a problem because the Bioclon product, though very promising and already widely in use elsewhere, is still under testing and not widely available throughout all of the blacktail's range. The Bioclon product is made with venom from four species, just like the CroFab. The difference is that none of the snakes used to make the Crofab possess one (possibly more) of the blacktail's toxins. ANTIVIPMYN, however, is made with C. basiliscus venom, among others. The basiliscus are closely related enough to the blacktail to provide the right toxins to make an antivenom which covers both. Just something to keep in mind when stocking up. This is much more important in the US, as CroFab will work for all of our other crotes. This may already be more common knowledge elsewhere, where the odds of owning a US species are about as good as owning a Mexican species.

With that said, I guess I'm gonna have to jump on the bandwagon and tell the OP to watch his fingers. Though the Crofab will work, I'm sure you have no desire to find out. I won't tell you it's not a first hot, but only because it was my first hot. But I will say it was only my first hot because of the ease with which one can find them here. They're quick. They don't often have a sunny disposition. They pack a lot of venom, and they aren't afraid to maim you for the rest of your life. Be careful. You'll also want to give it one whole body-length of distance (at least) at all times. C. atrox is one of three AZ species that I've personally seen leave the ground while striking.

Hope some of this advice helps someone here. Our passion and our hobby take enough flak from the masses without us helping their case by becoming statistics.