Puff adder sub species

[Nasicornis]

Just a quick question : Is Bitis arietns somalica a recognized subspecies and can it thus be classified as exotic? Are the only differences between the two the keeled subcaudals?

If this is true, does anyone keep any of these as "exotic" hots?

[shamroth]

they are a recognized subspecies,so i guess they classified as exotic..not sure about all the difference but i think the main ones are the subcaudals as well as b.a. somalica being quite a bit bigger.

by the way can you get pure bred somalica?if you can please pm me...id love some but never seen them for sale

[Nasicornis]

Shamroth. Thanks for that. Unfortunately, no, I am also not aware of any pure somalians available. Wouln't mind getting some myself. Would you think that polyvalent av used for B. arietans would also be effective against B, a somalica?

[Mongoose]

B.a.somalia does no longer exist, all of them are B.arietans now.

I stand to be corrected though.

[Nasicornis]

So, what happened to the keeled subcaudals? Have they also vanished or is it only described as a regional difference now?

[Mongoose]

I know lots is based on DNA.

The Bibrons Gecko and the Turners Gecko, they look pretty much identical, but yet in "DNA" terms they differ alot.

I am not too clued up on DNA ( I never listen in Bio class) Maybe WW of armata could explain a bit more if they get what im trying to say.

Goose

[Bushviper]

At the moment there is DNA work being done in Wales of all places.

These guys (and gals) seem to be cornering the world market when it comes to describing new snake species.

One of our members might be able to enlighten us as to how far the research is and any possibly indications.

I cannot believe that puff adders from "Cape to Cairo" are all exactly the same. Strangely I tried to breed a male specimen from Burundi with a local female and he never showed any interest in her, however I have seen the same with "Cape" puff adders and Gauteng puff adders.

[dave]

thought the middle african puff grows a lot larger than both north & southafrican specimens,heard things of the somalica sp reaching up to 180cm

[WW]

At the moment there is DNA work being done in Wales of all places.

These guys (and gals) seem to be cornering the world market when it comes to describing new snake species.

LOL!

More seriously, there is a heck of a lot genetic variation (a lot more than than you might expect!) across the range of B. arietans, including on a small geographic scale within SA. Whether these different variants represent different species or genetic variation within a single species remains to be ascertained. B.s. somalica is but one tiny piece in this jigsaw puzzle. More will be revealed in due course

Cheers,

WW

[armata]

Now you know why all the requests for puffie scale clippings!! A joint paper (WW sen author) being presented at the BIOLOGY OF THE VIPERS conference in Portugal in September; But this won't be publsied (I think) so have to wait for the paper.

Wasn't it in Spawls & Branch stated that the keeled subcaudals were (or might be) an aid to side winding?

[Echis]

This one is Bitis arietans somalica from northern Kenya (Marsabit District).

[Bushviper]

Echis thanks for those pictures. They do however look so similar to other B. arietans that I would not be able to tell the difference from a photo.

Armata I know about all the biological samples and knew a comment like that would get WW to answer, although I was hoping he was going to brag and give us a bit more info. No luck.

[Echis]

Yes, superficially looks like "normal" puffs...There is only one (twe - with DNA) diagnostic charactes - keeled subcaudals...I have experience, that a lot of specimens of somalica have keeled only last subcaudals (ca. 5-7). Here is a locality, from where my specimens (2,1) come.

[Pythonodipsas]

I think there are several other species of snake that are way more deserving of a sub-specific split, due to coloration and pattern differences. Think of Horned Adders (Bits caudalis) and Spotted House Snakes (Lamprophis gutattus)?

[dave]

nice puff ,cool habitat shot looks awesome over there