Copperheads

Copperheads

Postby Bushviper » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:01 pm

This last weekend my female Copperhead gave birth to 8 babies. One of them did not break out of the sac.
Image

On closer inspection I saw it was deformed and had bitten and killed itself. The fangs are clearly lodged in the body.
Image
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Brendan E » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:02 pm

holy cr@p............great pic
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Mitton » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:18 pm

That is SO weird!
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Re: Copperheads

Postby steve » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:29 am

thats crazy, guess its short lived life is for the better, he is not looking too hot. shame
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Re: Copperheads

Postby insaniac » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:48 am

What steve said... shame...
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Re: Copperheads

Postby uncutdiamonds » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:15 pm

Does that mean the venom is actually lethal to their own species?!
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Bushviper » Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:50 pm

I dont know if it is the venom or the actual damage caused by the penetration of the fangs. This has always been a debate because I have seen a gaboon turn and bite itself and die within an hour. I have also seen a Snouted cobra attack another Snouted and eventually "kill it" and swallow it. Whether the Snouted cobra would have recovered from the bite I dont now. I have also seen this from almost every other venomous snake I can think of. Puffies, Horned adders, Berg adders, Rinkhals, Spitting cobras, Boomslang etc.
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Westley Price » Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:56 am

I've also seen a B. cornuta which tail had been run over.

He seemingly struck at the pain and bit himself.

I found him dead in the "Armadillo" posture.

I can't say whether the venom or puncture wounds killed it.
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Bushviper » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:46 pm

Westley you would not imagine that the puncture wound to the tail area would kill a snake. That means that either the injuries were worse than just the tail being run over or the venom killed it.
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Snakes4Africa » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:48 pm

Suicide is always so sad in one so young.
Those who have made no mistakes have learned nothing and can teach nothing.
The same is true of those who continue to make the same mistakes.



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Re: Copperheads

Postby Herpetologist » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:12 pm

Yes, I would say it is exactly the same as if the snake bit another snake.Venom is venom although there is snakes which is really immune to venom of other snakes like Mussuranas etc. Venom stays venom so if it bites itself it will be fatal.Snakes aren't immune to their own venom, otherwise if a snoutie bit another snoutie and the other snoutie dies, then it means they aren't immune to their own venom.
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Bushviper » Sat Jun 19, 2010 5:13 pm

Snakes ingest their own venom all the time and they often bite themselves in the mouth which does not cause fatalities. I know venom is digestible but obviously they do have cuts etc from time to time.
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Wolf777 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 5:09 pm

I can imagine a snake being immune to it's own venom to a certain extent but then again I have no knowledge on the subject, any one care to explain a bit?
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Herpetologist » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:31 pm

Ok, then Bv please explain to me if a snouted cobra bit another snouted cobra, why would the invenomated snouted cobra die? How did your copperhead die?

Again generally speaking, snakes are NOT immune to venom - their own or another snake's. If a venomous snake bit its own tail, it would die. If a venomous snake bit another of its own species, the bitten snake would die. This is why, when venomous snakes fight, they do so by rearing up and 'wrestling' with each other, rather than biting. A species which goes around killing members of its own kind all the time generally doesn't last very long. There are certain snake species, for example the kingsnake, which have some degree of resistance to venom, probably developed over millions of years due to their habit of preying on venomous snakes, but this is the exception rather than the rule.
I must point out that venom is deadly only when injected into the bloodstream. It can be ingested with no ill effects - indeed, the venom of venomous snakes actually aids digestion by beginning to break the prey down even before it is swallowed. Also, the snake's venom is carried in its venom glands, and flows down a duct into the fangs when the snake bites. It does not come into contact with any other part of the body - it is not freely circulating around the snake's system.

Not arguing here, just want to find the CORRECT answer or maybe there is no correct answer YET.

Thanx, Daniel.
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Re: Copperheads

Postby Wolf777 » Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:15 pm

Venom is a complex coctail of proteins so in theory an animal producing and storing the "protein coctail" (venom) should have a certain albeit little bit of resistance to it, for instance boomslang inject minute amounts of venom(about 1mg) and that is enough to kill a human, but Im thinking that it might take a little bit more to kill another boomslang because as bv says they do sometimes have cuts, wounds etc. and for that amount of venom to enter a wound is a possibility. Please correct me if im wrong because this is how I always thought about it?
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