Copperhead subspecies

by **Pythonodipsas** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:45 pm

Serpy, what other genes do it/they carry? laticinctus?

by **Serpy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:33 pm

pythonodipsas it's difficult to say,the father of these babies is true pictigaster and the mother is pictigaster with either like you said broad banded or northern, difficult to distinguish because the two sub species are so different

by **Pythonodipsas** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:30 pm

oh, I guess the previous owner did not know either?

by **Serpy** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:50 pm

i will find out for you but my guess would be northern not broadbanded

by **mm069** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:28 pm

Confused here... Surely if there is a possiblity that yours are integrades between 2 subspecies (as mine probably are also) you can't refer to them as codominant pictigaster because a subspecies is neither a morph or mutation nor a colour variation? A mating between different subspecies will only result in the offspring being 100% intergrades. Sorry to be pedantic but isn't that correct?

by **Serpy** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:01 pm

thats a really good question but i don't think i'm qualified in that field to answer such a question. perhaps someone else could answer BV anybody from the states more experienced with copperheads.

by **Bushviper** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:08 pm

mm069 You are correct. The snakes will be intergrades and they will never breed and be identical to either subspecies. Therefore you cannot get a co-dominant gene. That is the sad part of crossing species or subspecies.

The differences between some of the copperhead subspecies is so difficult to determine that I do not believe it is a train smash if your snakes are intergrades.

by **Serpy** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:49 pm

that is sad unfortunately, as the trans pecos are such a beautiful sub species, luckily i now have the parents and the male is truly a beauty.

by **Long John Silver** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:37 am

So BV if I understand you correctly, if I have a bunch of copperheads that is crossbred. I won't be able to breed with them?

by **mm069** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:37 am

Hey LJS, what I think BV meant is that a lot of the chunkheads in SA are probably intergrades of two or more subspecies. Since this is already the case, it is not really a train smash if you breed them. If you were asking if it's possible to breed them, it is, they are still the same animal, same species, just slightly different.

by **Bushviper** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:26 am

Copperheads will breed whether they are intergrades or not. It will be very difficult to determine if they are intergrades or not so put them together in any case.

Obviously if you can see you have a possible pure subspecies try to find a mate that also looks pure.

by **rthomse** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:05 pm

Speaking of intergrades a guy bred a Southern coppper and an Eastern cottonmouth."Cottonheads". If I can dig up a link I'll post photo's .Neat looking snake's!

by **Bushbaby** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:17 pm

That wont be intergrades, those would be hybrids. Don't they occur in the same area??

by **mm069** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:25 pm

Yes, BB, that would be a hybrid. Not sure if hybridization occurs naturally between these two. I would be a little surprised if it did.

by **Bushviper** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:14 pm

Just because they occur in the same area does not mean that they will not mate with each other in captivity. Look at Gaboon vipers and puff adders for example.

In captivity strange things happen, that is why you want to avoid prison too.

Copperhead subspecies

Who is online