Copperhead subspecies

Postby Pythonodipsas » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:45 pm

Serpy, what other genes do it/they carry? laticinctus?
`
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.
Roger Waters & David Gilmour - 1979
User avatar
Pythonodipsas
SAReptiles Techie
 
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:32 pm
Location: Ramsgate, KZN

Postby Serpy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:33 pm

pythonodipsas it's difficult to say,the father of these babies is true pictigaster and the mother is pictigaster with either like you said broad banded or northern, difficult to distinguish because the two sub species are so different
A good burper is a good herper.
User avatar
Serpy
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Pretoria

Postby Pythonodipsas » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:30 pm

oh, I guess the previous owner did not know either?
`
If you wanna find out what's behind these cold eyes, you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise.
Roger Waters & David Gilmour - 1979
User avatar
Pythonodipsas
SAReptiles Techie
 
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 1:32 pm
Location: Ramsgate, KZN

Postby Serpy » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:50 pm

i will find out for you but my guess would be northern not broadbanded
A good burper is a good herper.
User avatar
Serpy
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Pretoria

Postby mm069 » Tue Jul 17, 2007 5:28 pm

Confused here... Surely if there is a possiblity that yours are integrades between 2 subspecies (as mine probably are also) you can't refer to them as codominant pictigaster because a subspecies is neither a morph or mutation nor a colour variation? A mating between different subspecies will only result in the offspring being 100% intergrades. Sorry to be pedantic but isn't that correct?
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." -David Herbert Richards Lawrence
mm069
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Gauteng

Postby Serpy » Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:01 pm

thats a really good question but i don't think i'm qualified in that field to answer such a question. perhaps someone else could answer BV anybody from the states more experienced with copperheads.
A good burper is a good herper.
User avatar
Serpy
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Pretoria

Postby Bushviper » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:08 pm

mm069 You are correct. The snakes will be intergrades and they will never breed and be identical to either subspecies. Therefore you cannot get a co-dominant gene. That is the sad part of crossing species or subspecies.

The differences between some of the copperhead subspecies is so difficult to determine that I do not believe it is a train smash if your snakes are intergrades.
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Those who are afraid to ask are ashamed of learning.
User avatar
Bushviper
Founder Member
 
Posts: 17358
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:02 am
Location: Pretoria

Postby Serpy » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:49 pm

that is sad unfortunately, as the trans pecos are such a beautiful sub species, luckily i now have the parents and the male is truly a beauty.
A good burper is a good herper.
User avatar
Serpy
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 2351
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:01 pm
Location: Pretoria

Postby Long John Silver » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:37 am

So BV if I understand you correctly, if I have a bunch of copperheads that is crossbred. I won't be able to breed with them?
Murphy's law in Herping: "If the snake is within range, so are you"
User avatar
Long John Silver
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue May 08, 2007 12:26 pm
Location: Pretoria

Postby mm069 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:37 am

Hey LJS, what I think BV meant is that a lot of the chunkheads in SA are probably intergrades of two or more subspecies. Since this is already the case, it is not really a train smash if you breed them. If you were asking if it's possible to breed them, it is, they are still the same animal, same species, just slightly different.
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." -David Herbert Richards Lawrence
mm069
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Gauteng

Postby Bushviper » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:26 am

Copperheads will breed whether they are intergrades or not. It will be very difficult to determine if they are intergrades or not so put them together in any case.

Obviously if you can see you have a possible pure subspecies try to find a mate that also looks pure.
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Those who are afraid to ask are ashamed of learning.
User avatar
Bushviper
Founder Member
 
Posts: 17358
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:02 am
Location: Pretoria

Postby rthomse » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:05 pm

Speaking of intergrades a guy bred a Southern coppper and an Eastern cottonmouth."Cottonheads". If I can dig up a link I'll post photo's .Neat looking snake's!
rthomse
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:55 am
Location: Lansdale,Pa ,USA

Postby Bushbaby » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:17 pm

That wont be intergrades, those would be hybrids. Don't they occur in the same area??
http://www.snakebiteassist.co.za
http://www.reptileexpo.co.za
http://www.boaconstrictors.co.za
User avatar
Bushbaby
SA Reptiles Admin
 
Posts: 10591
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:04 am
Location: Pretoria

Postby mm069 » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:25 pm

Yes, BB, that would be a hybrid. Not sure if hybridization occurs naturally between these two. I would be a little surprised if it did.
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." -David Herbert Richards Lawrence
mm069
SA Reptiles Member
 
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:03 pm
Location: Gauteng

Postby Bushviper » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:14 pm

Just because they occur in the same area does not mean that they will not mate with each other in captivity. Look at Gaboon vipers and puff adders for example.

In captivity strange things happen, that is why you want to avoid prison too.
Last edited by Bushviper on Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Those who are afraid to ask are ashamed of learning.
User avatar
Bushviper
Founder Member
 
Posts: 17358
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:02 am
Location: Pretoria

PreviousNext

Return to North American pitvipers (Agkistrodon sp.)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron