Legal question about T keeping

Legal question about T keeping

Postby Dangergirl » Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:41 am

Is it illegal to keep Tarantulas in captivity in the Western Cape ?
Who polices this law, and what are the penalties/consequences ?
I was hoping someone could shed some light on this for me ... :-?
Thnks
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby Bushviper » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:26 am

Just to be sure rather contact your local nature conservation office as policies change all the time.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby SerpenS » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:00 pm

I checked this on a website:
The Western Cape states that to protect their EXTREMELY special and unique "fynbos", all T's are ilegal.

I am a bit baffled by this statement since a spider can only make egg sachels that could disturb the plants, but it still won't exterminate them.
Secondly, the Western Cape has it's own list of baboon spider species which are in the wild.
And thirdly, if you have a pet, it's highly unlikely that you'll just let it off into the wild or loose it after paying for it.

I have to add that some T species are quite aggressive, like OBT, which is why they are illegal in South Africa. If these aggressive species are to escape somehow, there is a possibillity that they could hunt down and feed on, or even exterminate local spider species, but as I said, it's highly unlikely that a keeper will let his/her spider escape or just let it go after paying for it.

I have to conclude that the Western Cape is a bit unreasonable, a spider doesn't feed on plants, and most of these spiders live in burrows or shelters, they don't spin webbing until they've matured a bit, and this certainly won't affect the beauty of the Western Cape's ''fynbos'.

Thanx
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby Jakes » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:18 pm

SerpenS it's not because they are aggressive that OBT's are illegal in South Africa, but because the Genus Pterinochilus (which include indigenous species) is protected and therefore you are not allowed to keep them without a permit.

When I read the rest of your statements they are all very valid, but you are still looking at the situation form a tarantula keepers point of view and you are missing the bigger picture. My knowledge about fynbos are not great but from what I understand it has a delicate eco system. Therefore the Western Cape is looking at many other factors that would be of no value to you. Invasiveness of an exotic spider is the first thing. How easy would it be for an OBT to survive and establish itself in South Africa as they do occur naturally north of our border. If they can establish themselves how fast would the population expand as they tend to be more aggressive and fast breeders. If the population expands what impact would that have on our local baboon spiders and the other insects that will serve as food for this new population. If the insect population gets diminished to such an extent will the fynbos still get everything it needs for the eco system to survive.

Another thing is pathogens or microscopic bacteria. If an exotic tarantula gets introduced into the wild and it carries with it any disease the exotic spider might be immune to, it can cause havoc in our local populations. Local spiders might die in their hundreds and that might have an opposite effect on insect numbers. Insect numbers might increase to such an extent that they destroy the fynbos by eating it. The fact of the matter is that there have been little to no research been done on these types of situations in general let alone in South Africa. So you will have to get the impact study done and prove them wrong to get the laws changed.....but if they will change the law is another question.

When it comes to letting your pet spider go it does sometimes happen. It can be where a parent buys it for a kid and after the kid loses interest and the parent gets fed up looking after it, the spider gets thrown out. Sometime you as the tarantula keeper don't close the lid properly and you spider escapes(which have definitely happened in SA).

One more thing - all spiders start spinning silk as soon as they leave the egg sac. The fact that you can't always see it does not mean it is not there.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby SerpenS » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:43 am

Thanx for clearing it more.

I apologise for most of the incorrect information, just yesterday I saw a extremely thin string of silk from my baby, so point taken. :)
And I agree on the bigger picture, I missed that, bacteria and other insects are a huge factor, since, as you said, some spiders and insects might be immune to them, and others might not.

Sorry for the OBT misunderstanding, but as you said, they are aggressive and fast breeders, this gives the Western Cape even more of a reason not to allow exotic spiders in the Cape area, but certain places, like Butterfly world, which is the largest butterfly park in Africa, and it's situated in Cape Town, contains a few species of tarantula, including B. Smithi, B. Albopilosum etc. (went there once, not that great), these are very docile species and might not even be able to survive in the cape area, but no one knows, and the point is, Western Cape has T's, whether in a zoo or illegal traders. They CAN escape as you said.

I still vote for a study to be done in Western Cape to see wether exotic spiders will have the astronomical, apocalyptic consequences on the funbos as the conservationists ASSUME. you're 100% right on a study to be done Jakes.

Just a quote....I assumed a lot of stuff in my first message, look where it brought me, I was wrong with most of my presumptions...WP?
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby TonyK » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:10 pm

I have also seen Tarantulas down at Butterfly World .They also have Green Iguanas and plenty of other lizards.(banned in the Western Cape) .How is it possible that its legal for them but illegal for everybody else.Seems like a clear case of double standards.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby Ceratogyrus » Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:15 pm

Its not double standards. Butterfly world has a permit to keep all the reptiles and tarantulas confiscated by nature conservation from people keeping them illegally. They look after them well, so dont see a problem with it.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby Jakes » Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:15 pm

Butterfly world probably has a zoo permit and that allows them access to many animals that us as the public would not be able to keep or would have to spend a great deal of money to get onto a permit. It is a bit difficult comparing them to the general public(even if they are experienced keepers/breeders).
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby SerpenS » Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:34 am

When I was there I asked the guy how it was possible for them to keep these exotic animals, but impossible for the public to keep them.
He told me they have a zoo permit and that they are aloud to keep them, but not sell or breed any species. So they're kept on a VERY short leash by Cape nature.

And another thing he said was that most of the spiders they have are from illegal dealings, mostly from cape nature catching people with them, and then confiscating them. There's even a T that they couldn't identify, which I think is pathetic for a zoo. I mean, shouldn't they do research and try and find out what species they have, it would increase customer satisfaction, 'cause to be honoust, I was a bit dissapointed that they hadn't even tried to identify it, not even a few names that it could be.

Anyways, we're drifting off topic, butterfly world is a zoo with a permit to hold spiders and exotic animals, and from what I saw, it might be a limited amount, these spiders are illegal, but I'm sure if we can do research in the cape, there might a possibillity in the future that these beautiful spiders might be legalised, as in all other provinces.

Besides, if I'm correct, Western Province is on of our biggest provinces, meaning a lot of potential keepers, meaning a bigger market, more cash flow :D...bigger picture... (from our perspective)
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby Bushviper » Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:35 am

Butterfly world is a zoo. A zoo can keep an elephant a private person may not. I dont see anyone complaining about that. They have to meet certain standards which are regulated constantly. Private people do not have visitors on a daily basis who will complain if something is not right.

To compare the two is ridiculous. Many zoos do not want the burden of keeping confiscated animals. Often they would rather not have this and would prefer the animal is removed and euthanased as soon as the court case is over due to the threat of disease from some sickly smuggled animal or the expense of keeping an animal which has no conservation or educational value. If they acquire some species they would like then it compensates for the rubbish they have to accept from the authorities.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby TonyK » Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:56 pm

Bushviper wrote:Butterfly world is a zoo. A zoo can keep an elephant a private person may not. I dont see anyone complaining about that. They have to meet certain standards which are regulated constantly. Private people do not have visitors on a daily basis who will complain if something is not right.

To compare the two is ridiculous. Many zoos do not want the burden of keeping confiscated animals. Often they would rather not have this and would prefer the animal is removed and euthanased as soon as the court case is over due to the threat of disease from some sickly smuggled animal or the expense of keeping an animal which has no conservation or educational value. If they acquire some species they would like then it compensates for the rubbish they have to accept from the authorities.

Bushviper to be honest Butterfly world is nothing more than a small greenhouse filled with exotic butterflys and plants.
They are there for one reason and that is to make money.I can hardly see them being concerned with an animals conservation or educational value.
Their only concern is making a profit and having a nice collection of exotic animals will with out a doubt help bring more paying visitors through the door.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby Jakes » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:53 pm

TonyK it seems like you are making a lot of assumptions about Butterfly world. The fact of the matter remains that they are classified as a zoo and therefore are in possesion of the zoo permit that allows them to keep various animals on permit that we won't be able to. It also takes a fair amount of money to keep a zoo running and in a good condition, so making a profit is part of the package.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby TonyK » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:55 pm

Jakes I take it you have never been to Butterfly world then?
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby SerpenS » Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:16 pm

Tony, I have, and yes, it is basicly a big greenhouse, but they're still classified as a zoo. Meaning they have a zoo permit, and being a zoo I would say they should do some extra research on their animals to keep the zoo up to date, it'll help make more money, but anyway, WP is stuck with the law, and unless someone does something about the law, spiders will remain illegal in this province, butterfly world will be the closest you would come to handle a T.
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Re: Legal question about T keeping

Postby Halfniak » Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:18 am

SerpenS wrote:I checked this on a website:
The Western Cape states that to protect their EXTREMELY special and unique "fynbos", all T's are ilegal.

I am a bit baffled by this statement since a spider can only make egg sachels that could disturb the plants, but it still won't exterminate them.
Secondly, the Western Cape has it's own list of baboon spider species which are in the wild.
And thirdly, if you have a pet, it's highly unlikely that you'll just let it off into the wild or loose it after paying for it.

I have to add that some T species are quite aggressive, like OBT, which is why they are illegal in South Africa. If these aggressive species are to escape somehow, there is a possibillity that they could hunt down and feed on, or even exterminate local spider species, but as I said, it's highly unlikely that a keeper will let his/her spider escape or just let it go after paying for it.

I have to conclude that the Western Cape is a bit unreasonable, a spider doesn't feed on plants, and most of these spiders live in burrows or shelters, they don't spin webbing until they've matured a bit, and this certainly won't affect the beauty of the Western Cape's ''fynbos'.

Thanx


I just stumbled onto this and thought about 2 posts on South African and UK forums, as well as a video I had recently seen on youtube, regarding the opening of sacks and hundreds of healthy slings, in which the breeder/keeper candidly explains how some of the spiderlings escaped and kind of shrugs it off. I wonder how many times this kind of thing happens.

I doubt that aggressive behaviour by T's is a problem. I think the bigger problem lies in the inbreeding and hybridisation of species.
Also, a docile tarantula isn't necessarily a weak or vulnerable tarantula. In fact B.albopilosum is hardy and as far as I'm concerned they stand a good chance in most environments.

About Butterfly World, I saw they had two unidentified T's (maybe it was hard to tell due to all the cross breeding - :lol: ) I enjoyed my visit there.
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