Cape Nature - Ad on Gumtree

[Athlordian]

Ok, so last week sometime, Cape Nature Conservation, or somebody posing as a CNC representative, posted this on Gumtree:

"Did you know that a permit is needed to be in possession of the following wild animals?
Reptiles, Iguanas, Lizards, protected birds, tortoises and spiders.

Please contact CapeNature Conservation for all the necessary permit applications regarding reptile species.
This includes the import, export, transport and possession of these species.

Our office hours are during 07:30am until 16:00pm
Where an official will gladly assist you.
Feel free to contact us on.
Tel 021 483 0000.
Or our website on http://www.capenature.co.za"

I can't help but think that this is going to open a can of worms on a few permit related issues. If you read the ad as it is, they're basically saying that spiders, lizards, iguanas etc. are ok...AS LONG AS THEY ARE ON PERMIT?! The ad should have mentioned that it is illegal for the laymen to own/buy/sell any of the black listed animals, but there's no mention of this. So, if reading this ad in its context, you can safely deduce that they are in fact encouraging individuals to apply for permits for their illegally kept, black listed animals. If this is the case, CNC is in the process of being caught in a HUGE entrapment charge.

We all know that the animals listed in their ad are illegal to keep...so what happens when somebody now applies for a permit for said illegal animal? You pay your R80 for your permit application, only to be informed that the animal is illegal or will CNC grant the permit, thereby effectively opening the gate for the rest of us to keep animals like beardies and iggies? Will they confiscate the animal once the addresses on the application has been processed? If the application fails, will they refund the person for the failed permit application? Will owners/traders of these animals be slapped with a fine on top of it all?

I don't see them granting permits for those animals...so I think it's safe to assume that a few people are going to lose a few animals and a whole lot of money. Posting an ad like this, with the wording they've used, may have been a very, very bad idea...it is shockingly stupid to say the least. A few people have already whispered that they're going to push the envelope on this issue...so I'm wishing CNC all the best.

Any thoughts...?

Here's the link to the ad:
http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Pets-ot ... Z226114763

PS: It would be awesome if we can get somebody from CNC to elaborate on this.

[Bushviper]

Yeah that is very misleading. I would pepper their officials with phone calls asking if they will issue the permits if I apply. If they say "no" then say "oh okay" and put down. If they say yes then ask them if you can hold them to it. If they say "apply and see" then ask them how many permits they have issued for these animals and then go "oh" and put down.

I would suggest that everyone who has a "safe" email address should ask very politely about permits for Iguanas, bearded dragons, leopard geckos and the like. Dont make it outrageous either or else they will cotton on. Ask them if you can get a permit for your tarantula or whatever and how soon will this happen and how much does it cost? Mention the gumtree ad when you apply.

dhignett@capenature.co.za

is the correct email address for permit applications. You can tag the ad and include that in the mail as well.

[TonyK]

If the application fails, will they refund the person for the failed permit application?

I once asked Deon Hignett to change the address on a permit application because I had made a mistake and was told that they are running a business so I must pay again.So I asked them to refund me the money that I paid for the first application.He just repeated that he is running a business.Nice guy to deal with.

[Van2]

It seems like this permit applications is a joke and a money making scheme?

[TonyK]

Its not going to be a joke for all the guys and girls who end up having their pets taken away when they try and apply for permits.

[Van2]

Its not going to be a joke for all the guys and girls who end up having their pets taken away when they try and apply for permits.

Sorry, thats not what I meant - the add is a joke and its a pity that people with no experience is caught by that!

[Athlordian]

I wonder if they can be done for false advertising...which is what it comes down to at the end of the day. I must admit though, I've never had any issues with CNC, but you can't help but think that this "advertisement" thing that they put on Gumtree, can open a Pandora's box of $#|t for them. That entire ad can be misconstrued as a scam to catch those dumb enough to fall for it.

[MacAdder]

Hignett is just the Bureaucrat decoy. Ernst Baard (Dr.) baarde@capenature.co.za Scientific “Services” invented the nonexistent ecological threat and is far too proud to almighty that his opinion is unscientific so to avoid looking foolish he sticks his head in the sand and ignores all common sense.

These animals are not provincially “black listed” but Ernst Baard denies permission to issue permits for them. No permit makes the animal illegal to import, keep, etc.

This Gumtree ad is their way of bring in revenue and to indicate to all that they are not as useless as public opinion indicates. These “heroes” are under official investigation form the MEC and the Provincial Premier.

[Van2]

If their public opinion mattered they would have reached far bigger audiences by placing an add in the local newspaper.

I think this whole thing is just a scam? Anyone can post a add there!

[Athlordian]

@Van2: I think they may have specifically targeted Gumtree due to the large number of "illegal" animals that are sold via Gumtree on a daily basis.
@Mac Adder: Nice one!

Having dealt with CNC and the majority of its team members within the permit department, I can honestly say that, apart from Lee-Anne, it sounds like none of them enjoy their job. They don't return phone calls, they hardly ever reply to emails, they regularly use the "we didn't receive the fax" excuse when you chase a permit application and they just sound soooooooooooo enthralled when speaking to you on the phone. We must remember that Hignett is only an employer of CNC. He's not a decision maker and, at the end of the day, has to implement a decision that others have made, so I think blaming him would be wrong. He may not be the most tactful person on the team, but he's assisted me to the best of his abilities every time I've dealt with him and answered every question I've had.

[Athlordian]

UPDATE:

Ok, so I enquired, via Gumtree, about applying for a permit to keep an iguana (which we all know is illegal in the WC) and I got this reply from Michael Hanson, who I know is a CNC employer. Here's his reply:

From: mhanson@capenature.co.za
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2010 07:27:43 +0200
Subject: Sale of Reptiles

Hi

You can apply by all means.

Regards,

Michael John Hanson
BELLVILLE CONSERVATION SERVICES
postal Private Bag x29 Gatesville 7766
physical PGWC Shared Services Center cnr Bosduif & Volstruis Streets Bridgetown 7764

Website http://www.capenature.co.za
Telephone +27 21 483 40156 fax +27 21
Fax to e-mail 086 576 5103
Cell 082 058 9108
E-mail mhanson@capenature.co.za

So somebody's either very blunt, very stupid or CNC is trying to make money to pay for their xmas party...

[Bushviper]

Yeah all that this means is that you can apply. Then when they deny it they come fetch your animal. Pity it costs money to apply every time.

If there is someone you do not like who lives in the Cape then this can be a fun way of messing up their day. Hi. I am Julius Malema. I bought an iguana on gumtree and would like my permit issued. Thank you. My address is .........

[Athlordian]

LOL @ Bushviper! Give them the "PGWC Shared Services Center, cnr Bosduif & Volstruis Streets, Bridgetown, 7764" addy (CNC's address) every time.

[deleray]

I say we should get a whole lot of people replying from a safe email address. Provide them with arb addresses all over the cape and then sit back watch them run around trying to collect the non-exisitent animals

[froot]

It seems like a valid post from Capenature.

Maybe they are fully aware of the illegal, or shall we say 'permitless' trading going down on sites like Gumtree and are taking steps to inform the public of the laws in that region. Notice how they mentioned iguanas and then lizards. To me that's a green light to get permits for these animals so if you are in the Cape and want an iguana for instance take it and run with it, quoting the ad you saw. Once one permit has been issued to the public for an animal they will have a hard time denying the next person that confronts them about it.