Bitis gabonica venom potency?

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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Lachesis mutus » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:36 pm

Please just read everything before you reply.

I did not use LD50 values to base my argument at all.

I was merely pointing out that if you take everything into consideration a Puffadder is a more dangerous snake.

I do agree (as I said above) that the bite from a Gaboon adder is more likely to result is a fatality than most Puffadder bites, however i just wanted to add that a bite from a venomous snake, any venomous snake its not something that has a ''fixed" outcome and is unpredictable like all snake bites there is so many uncontrollable factors to take into consideration, that is why I said its likely to result, and not it will result, but if you are talking just in general I do agree.

Like you said 2 snakes from different parts can have a different affect, right?

What I'm saying is that if one snake, say a Gaboon bites 2 people the outcome of the bite can be drastically different in each individual.

Hope you understand.
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby deleray » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:47 pm

Well I guess we have different opinions then, If you get bitten by one you can put on a pressure bandage and give that advice to aspiring ''herpers'' if you like.


Wow mutus, you certainly know a hell of a lot about snake venom and first aid treatment of bites. If I were you, I would send out a blanket email to all medical response staff and venom researchers offering your assistance, at a premium rate of course!

It would be a dying shame to let the wealth of knowledge that is stored in the depths of your brain go unused.
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Silvrav » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:58 pm

Round 2....who is bringing the popcorn :)
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Lachesis mutus » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:15 pm

You see, That is a perfect example of exactly what's wrong with this hobby.

Ignorance is bliss my friend.
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Fooble » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:32 pm

Silvrav wrote:Round 2....who is bringing the popcorn :)


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More Popcorn = More stupid threads.
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby deleray » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:37 pm

Ignorance is bliss my friend


You use the term friend loosely I see?

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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby froot » Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:57 pm

Ok calm down.
If you cannot allow others to disagree with you then it's not a debate, it's an argument and onlookers go fetch their popcorn quickly before we lock the topic.

Focus on the good points made here while ignoring confrontation. Trying to smooth over someone elses abrasive personality will never work on a forum, get over it and move on.

Points like the following made here should settle any 'most dangerous snake' debate quite conclusively:

Individual differences in venom composition mean that even within one population, one specimen can have a venom several times more lethal than another, and different populations of the same species can differ considerably in their average lethality.


a bite from a venomous snake, any venomous snake its not something that has a ''fixed" outcome and is unpredictable like all snake bites there is so many uncontrollable factors to take into consideration


What I'm saying is that if one snake, say a Gaboon bites 2 people the outcome of the bite can be drastically different in each individual.


In a nutshell this debate involves so many variables that it's like discussing the length of a piece of string that most of us have never seen before and what the length of the next piece of string will be.

Personally, if I had a shotgun pointed at my head and was told that I had to take a bite from a gaboon or puffy, my choices would have to be as follows:

1)Puffy
2)Gaboon
3)Shotgun ;-)
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Whitelipp » Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:24 pm

Well I think the question or statement "which is most dangerous" is irrelevant to the topic. The topic was 'Bitis gabonica venom potency". So if you get bitten by a gabby it is most likely to have a bigger effect on you than would a puffy bite, because of the venom yield of a single bite and the depth of injection due to the large fangs.
Then in the pet trade, distribution and all that other cr@p you referred to does not play a role.

As to Wiki being a good source of info. Yes it can be but it’s not always 100% reliable.
The debate was a good one but a bit off topic if you ask me.
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Bushviper » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:35 pm

Lachesis mutus wrote:I mean I don't know if you have ever handled some wild Puffadder's and wild Gaboon's but from my experience I tell you a Gaboon is like a cornsnake compared to a proper adult wild Puffadder.


No I guess having handled a few hundred Gaboon vipers and Rhino vipers compared to a few thousand Puff adders I suppose your experience far outweighs mine.

By your logic then an Inland Taipan bite should be a walk in the park because nobody has died from a bite of arguably the most toxic snake in the world.

A baby green mamba has a venom 3 times more potent than an adult. The problem is an adult produces about 8 times as much venom in each bite. Which one would you like to get tagged by?
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Lachesis mutus » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:00 pm

No I guess having handled a few hundred Gaboon vipers and Rhino vipers compared to a few thousand Puff adders I suppose your experience far outweighs mine
.

Wow thats great man, congrats !!

I you had read anything i have said you would have seen that i was talking about Puffadder's and Gaboon's and not about experience or lack there of ,and as far as the pet trade go's, working with a Puffadder on a daily basis is more dangerous than working with a Gaboon, just by the nature of the snake thats just how they are. And for the 20th time I do agree that a Gaboon's bite is likely to be more severe than that of a Puffadder however its something only a fool will put that as a definite fixed outcome.

By your logic then an Inland Taipan bite should be a walk in the park because nobody has died from a bite of arguably the most toxic snake in the world.


By my logic?? Well you clearly stated that no one has died from a inland taipan (Oxyuranus microlepidotus) envenomation, yes? Read this,

''The 20 year old Sydney snake collector, Kevin Budden, of Randwick, died in the Cairns Base Hospital at 1.30 p.m. yesterday from the effect of a inland Taipan (Oxyuranus microlepidotus) snake bite he received on Thursday morning.''

Took him 27 hours to succumb ''from a bite of arguably the most toxic snake in the world.''

http://www.kingsnake.com/aho/species/extras/budden.html

With regards to your Green Mamba claim, I would very much appreciate if you can forward that paper trough to me as I cant see how that is possible, it might be tough i'm defiantly not so ignorant as to dismiss the possibility , and I wont get "tagged'' by either of them thanks, you should not even get bitten by a corn snake.

Experience reflects in everything, just a thought.
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Silvrav » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:38 pm

Anybody brought popcorn?
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Smeegle » Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:37 pm

Silvrav wrote:Anybody brought popcorn?


Here you go! And a Coke nogal....

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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Whitelipp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:20 am

@ Lachesis mutus,,, please read you post again... It wasn't a guy walking in the bush that got bitten! It was a snake collector, so would you say in the "pet trade" a puffy is more dangerous because of people running in to them more often? Well yea if I go to the puffy enclosure twice a day and only to the gaboon enclosure once is the probability more that I will get tagged by my puffy, so I think your argument is contradicting itself here.
You are arguing like a kid! So rather listen what knowledgeable people are saying but don't ramble on about cr@p you know is just irrelevant.
Dont bite, strike!!!!

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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Lachesis mutus » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:55 am

Oh yes if forgot you are the one with a degree in Zoology hey??
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Re: Bitis gabonica venom potency?

Postby Whitelipp » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:53 am

Dude you can be a firefighter I don’t care. If you are talking bullshit we will tell you! So get of your little pedestal and be willing to learn a bit more.
But if you think you know it all well congrats mate. Darwinism is real :lol:
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