The never ending debate-EVOLUTION

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The never ending debate-EVOLUTION

Postby froot » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:46 pm

Encouraged by Anco I decided to start what could be one of those 'sticky' threads- EVOLUTION!!!.
What has made the living world what it is now?
How it all began?
What happened to our and all creatures' ancestors?
What will become of us and all creatures?

Here is a link on the topic:

http://cluestick.me.uk/burrow/evolution_of_snakes.htm

In this page it says:

Snakes, like all living things, are the product of the process of evolution, which allows species to change over time in response to environmental factors to produce entirely new species. The engine of evolution is "natural selection", in which those individual animals that possess superior survival traits tend to live longer than others and reproduce, in turn passing those same traits on to their offspring.


There are so many theories of evolution, some with substantial evidence, and I have yet another theory to throw into the pot that I've never seen being mentioned before. Here goes.....

In that quote it says 'The engine of evolution is "natural selection"', which must be true and natural selection is steered by the environment. As the environment changes, the characteristics of the most suitable organism shift. Major environmental changes that I've seen discussed are ice age and catastrophic meteor collision. There may be more, even what I theorise, which is..gravity! I theorise that animals which used to roam the globe in prehistoric times were larger because the force of gravity was less and their movement was less restricted. How did I draw this conclusion? Let me explain.

Look at our solar system, do you see how each planet has a different gravity magnitude? Notice how the larger the planet, the higher the gravity? Each body has it's own gravity which is directly proportional to its mass, even a little stone on the side of the road.
If the earth's gravity is to increase, it will need to become larger, how? Think about it...
Have you ever spent hours gazing at the stars keeping an eye out for shooting stars? In case you were not sure, shooting stars are celestial matter colliding with the earth and the light you see are them burning up in the atmosphere. These shooting stars occur not just in the small piece of sky you are looking at but all around the globe all of the time. There is also cosmic dust, invisible to us, entering all the time. All this matter is entering the earth's atmosphere and and is kept here by the earth's gravity and the total mass of the earth is increasing slowly, but steadily. Larger bodies burn up in the atmosphere but they are transformed into gasses and dust. The total mass entered into the atmosphere remains the same.

So basically, after all that, the earth's mass has increased over the millions of years and hence the gravity. Larger animals could no longer survive under their own weight and gave way to smaller ones. This must have been a contributing factor to evolution, along with climate changes and major isolated events.
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Postby reinhard » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:11 pm

So, what you mean to say is that, as earth's mass increases, humans and other animals will become smaller, until we eventually we are so small, we won't be able to see eachother. That means that if we can control the population growth so that it is reversely proportional ("omgekeerd eweredig" - if that's the translation) to the expansion of earth, we'll never have a problem with overpopulation and eventually some day, my house will be big enough for me.
Interesting theory.
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Postby reinhard » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:13 pm

So you mean to say that dwarfs are the next step in our evolution?
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Postby Sean » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:57 pm

i read in a huisgenoot years ago that for a human to live 200+ years he would have to be 2 foot tall and shaped almost exactly like the average fantasy elf (like in the book of squashed fairies)

another question, space junk keeps falling into the atmosphere (as stated above) and as it falls the friction and heat pretty much dissolve it but as this falls in does the planet balance itself out by loosing a bit of the atmosphere? (as happens when we burn natural resources)
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Postby hafnon » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:38 pm

Froot.....good topic if you are looking for off the wall non-mainstream theories try alternative science under yahoo topics...... there are a few theories that cover increasing and decreasing gravity.....the phrase "expanding earth" may yeild you some theories you may enjoy reading
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Postby Sean » Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:56 pm

reinhard wrote:So, what you mean to say is that, as earth's mass increases, humans and other animals will become smaller, until we eventually we are so small, we won't be able to see eachother. That means that if we can control the population growth so that it is reversely proportional ("omgekeerd eweredig" - if that's the translation) to the expansion of earth, we'll never have a problem with overpopulation and eventually some day, my house will be big enough for me.
Interesting theory.


LOL u must remember that molecules dont get smaller when they do they tend to take out a continent
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Postby froot » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:40 pm

Thanks Hafnon, I'll go take a look.

Sean wrote:
another question, space junk keeps falling into the atmosphere (as stated above) and as it falls the friction and heat pretty much dissolve it but as this falls in does the planet balance itself out by loosing a bit of the atmosphere? (as happens when we burn natural resources)


Sean the amount of energy an object needs to escape the confines of the earth's gravity is is very high, even for gasses. Once it is trapped by gravity, it stays here for good. All moving planets suck up cosmic matter in their paths like huge vacuum cleaners by way of their gravities, unless the relative speed and momentum of cosmic matter is high enough to push through the gravity 'net' only leaving it deflected from it's original course and it's speed altered.
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Postby Bushviper » Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:32 pm

Well I guess all of this will be proven after I am worm food.

I was fairly sure I had seen a half ape half human but it was just my ex mother in law in the shower. Damn that would give anyone the heebie jeebies.
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Postby drummer » Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:51 pm

check this site out.. very interesting(and they like herps aswell)

www.answersingenesis.com
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Postby Snakes Incorporated » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:55 pm

I believe that any animal species is able to adapt over time but evolve, certainly not. Even the evolutionary theory is questioned among those that teach it.

The main question to be answered is not how life adapts or changes (evolves) but
“How did life get here?”

If this question has no answer lets study the gulf between reptiles and mammals. Mammals produce milk through glands where as reptiles do not even have sweat glands let alone glands that could “evolve” into producing food.
A mammal has three bones in the ear and a reptile has only one. Where did the “extras” come from? The organ Corti in the ears of the mammals is not found in reptilian ears. (Corti is a tiny organ containing about 30 000 nerve endings) Mammals maintain a body temperature were as reptiles are unable.
There is no diaphragm in reptiles, but mammals have a diaphragm that separates the thorax from the abdomen. Reptiles have at least four bones in the lower jaw where mammals have one.

Other facts cover the positioning of legs or lack there of. Teeth, skeleton and musculature formation can all be debated.
In my opinion to even consider that one species can evolve into another would be wishful conjecture as not even fossil evidence supports this.
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Postby froot » Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:38 am

Wow!! Striking comparison between reptiles and mammals, very interesting. It seems to me like reptiles have more of an aquatic origin. Environmental conditions must play a role in a creature's physical adaptions. Take our appendix for example. It's small and almost useless where in herbivores it is a functional organ. We are omnivores, and we only eat 'soft' plant matter so the appendix is not improtant, dictated by environmental conditions. The fact that it's there means that it was of use at some stage.
Wisdom teeth...some people today are born without them, evolution in action before our very eyes.
I believe the environment dictates a creature's physical features. As the environment changes, so does a species, maybe even to an extent that it can be classified as a different species. If it doesn't it becomes extinct. This may be only in certain cases, others being hydridisation and maybe other genetic manifestations.
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Postby Neboo » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:32 pm

I agree with froot evolution is not one creature turning into another but changing to the environment in which it lives.

I read on a site of interisting facts that over 90% of life which has ever lived on the planet became extinct before man arrived.
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Postby drummer » Thu Sep 01, 2005 1:22 pm

Take our appendix for example. It's small and almost useless where in herbivores it is a functional organ. We are omnivores, and we only eat 'soft' plant matter so the appendix is not improtant, dictated by environmental conditions. The fact that it's there means that it was of use at some stage.
Wisdom teeth...some people today are born without them, evolution in action before our very eyes.


some people are born with no arms or are born retarded, blind, deaf. Is this evolution. i do not think a case of a few people being born with no wisdom teeth is evidence of evolution.

and for the appendix we have and don't use, i have seen people(everyday in fact) that have brains and don't use them :wink:

so if you think evolution is true: explain how life got here and are you saying that you once started out as a wormy organismo thingy majigger.
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Postby froot » Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:11 pm

so if you think evolution is true: explain how life got here and are you saying that you once started out as a wormy organismo thingy majigger.


Well sortof, more like a sperrmy organismo thingy majigger. :-D
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Postby Snakes Incorporated » Thu Sep 01, 2005 9:48 pm

A mutation is the basis for the evolutionary theory. The presumption of one living organism evolving into anther type by accident through mutation and then reproducing itself.
A mutation occurs when cells reproduce with a defective or damaged DNA chain. This brings more harm than good and is usually lethal. Scientifically, mutations is not an advance onward or upward in development but an accidental bad thing. :cry:

Another example is that mutation can change the colour or texture of hair or feathers but it will still be hair or feathers. A person’s hand may develop an extra finger on a hand but it is still a finger and it is still a hand.
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