National Alien invasive listing

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National Alien invasive listing

Postby Bushviper » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:33 pm

Hi all

As we win one fight the next fight looms upon us.

The latest DRAFT list of NATIONALLY invasive species has just been circulated for comment.

Species for which you will now need permits include:

Plumed basilisk in EC KZN Limpopo and Mpumalanga
All Rattlesnakes
Panther chameleons
Tokay geckos
Amethystine pythons in EC KZN Limpopo and Mpumalanga
Carpet/Diamond pythons
Burmese pythons

Species which you may own but not trade, transport, release or breed include:
Varanus salvator
All Red eared and other sliders
Chinese box terrapins

Species for which no permit will ever be issued (basically outlawed):
Brown basilisk
Brown tree snake
Common snapping turtle
Alligator snapper
All exotic amphibians!

Sorry to say but the spider list is rather extensive. (Blacklisted)
Brazilian white knees
Pink toes
Curly hairs
Mexican red knee
Red rump
Chilean rose
Cobalt blue
Brazilian salmon pink
Indian ornamental
Trinidad chevron
Goliath bird eater.

These listed above are not the entire list. Go look for the Government gazette Vol 584 Pretoria 12 February 2014 No 37320
http://www.gov.za/documents/download.php?f=209566

It is possible to comment on the proposals and these should be eloquent and reasonable so that they take you seriously.

Read the entire document before making any silly comments please.

I dont know how they are going to implement it. I have no more information than anybody else. I am however trying to arrange a meeting so that we can discuss this and not just pass comments.
It is easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Those who are afraid to ask are ashamed of learning.
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Savu » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:32 pm

It would interest me to know why they pick on carpets and Burmese. What makes them different to other exotic pythons? I suppose regarding Burmese,they are copying the states,but why on earth carpetpythons?
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby gekosin » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:19 am

What is the reasoning behind all these changes? I am not familiar with how they decide on it but is there somewhere i can get more info?

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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Urucone » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:14 pm

I for one know that the reason Burmese python is on the list, it's because some people hybridize them with African rock pythons, proof that they can become a invasive species, carpet pythons still got me by surprize, There are a few reptiles that I'm surprized not to see on the list but I'm leaving it there, there's also exotic birds on the list namely ring nek parakeets (I saw that one coming 8 years ago), plum heads and peafowl(peacocks), strange that the tarantula listings are all the "common known / talked about tarantulas", hopefully they only wen't on what they know, one thing that boils my blood is that they've listed cichlids and plecostomus, it's two huge family's of fish, Oscars, convicts (this is the guilty party), discus, angels, malawis, common pleco (guilty party), clown pleco, zebra pleco, orange marble, tiger, green hi-fin, bull dog ext. why crucify the whole family if there is only one or two guilty ones.

It's like dad spanking all the kids because one kid broke the vase, and now everyone is in trouble because dad don't know who's the culprit.
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Chopper 1 » Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:16 pm

Burmese - fully understand, but carpet python??Who puts these lists together? Someone who has kept a corn snake in NAT COn and is now an expert possibly??
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Urucone » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:28 pm

I think that the alien invasive list is one of the better ones so far, like the gauteng list was a joke, I'll give them a A for effort on this one, but they haven't thought it entirely through, maybe one day they'll work with us and not against us, the person that wrote this look like someone that thinks a bit more than the usual ....., so I hope he'll be open to suggestions and reasoning, hopefully we can support Arno in this cause and hopefully remove a few animals or atleast point out the culprits and only remove the ones necessary and enjoy these animals in our hobby a bit longer
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Zane02 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:11 am

And does Pink Toes include all Avicularia spp.(all refered to as some or other Pink Toe) or will it just be Avicularia avicularia (Common Pink Toe)?
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Westley Price » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:21 am

The list is actually a lot less extensive (reptile-wise) than I expected. There are species I would still exclude from that list and also a few species I might have included, but not a bad effort.

I do feel sorry for guys who specialize in species/genera which could now be restricted or prohibited if this list does come into effect.

The thing about a list like this is you cannot simply look at what other countries are doing, or what species have become invasive in other countries. There are species /genera on that list which have never been in the country, and will probably never be brought in, but they are invasive elsewhere in the world so now they are added here.

They need to focus more on what is being kept in our country and on what scale they are being kept. Who in their right mind would release or allow their Amethistine Python to escape? The chances of (for argument sake) a Corn or King becoming a serious problem is MUCH higher than for most of the reptiles on that list.
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby BRB » Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:34 am

BV, does this mean that we can now keep Tokay Geckos in the Western Cape...............on permit?
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Bushviper » Tue Feb 25, 2014 7:45 pm

I am going to have a meeting with them on the 6th of March. Hopefully then I will have more clarity.
Just remember a province can make the rules stricter in their province however now you can ask them for a reason why the species would be invasive if the National list which was drawn up by far more people than the provincial one and they did not deem it necessary.
Burmese have been crossed with African rock pythons while no Burmese x Natal rock pythons have ever reached adulthood.
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Shaun » Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:45 pm

The Burmese in my opinion is no doubt because of the Everglades in the US.
All rattle snakes is an interest to me and would be entertained by the official reasoning behind this specific “invasive species” scare.

The law requires “public participation” but can ignore what ever the public suggests anyway.
I’d like to find out were this invasive species draft came from and for what purpose?
Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools and accepted by idiots.
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby SABOAMAN » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:21 am

The list has made it into the news at IOL

http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/science/en ... -1.1652560

Durban - Thousands of homeowners and landowners could soon become liable for stiff fines for keeping or failing to control thousands of alien invader plants, animals, birds and other creatures.

The new national list of more than 1 000 alien invasive or prohibited creatures includes dozens of common garden plants and grasses, more than a dozen birds, two dozen reptiles and a long list of smaller nunus, such as crazy ants, red imported fire ants, pink-toed tarantulas and “kiss of death” bacteria.

The draft regulations published in the Government Gazette recently for public comment also provide for maximum fines of R5-million or five years in jail.

While the main aim is to prevent more alien invader species coming into South Africa, the new draft laws are intended to arrest the spread of potentially “devastating” species. These include “famine weed”, a toxic Central American plant that is spreading rapidly through KwaZulu-Natal, and weeds such as the water hyacinth that can spread out to cover double its original area within less than 10 days, killing fish as it sucks up water and oxygen.

The Department of Environmental Affairs said some alien microbes posed a particular challenge as they created a major disease risk for people, plants and animals.

“There are uncountable billions of specimens of almost 1 000 listed invasive species already within South Africa. By their nature, invasive species invade. They spread and grow, and the situation quickly deteriorates, and can reach a threshold point of no return.

“Estimates have put the impact of invasive species on the economy at hundreds of billions of rand and without controls the costs would rapidly escalate as the invasives spread and grow… South Africa has only been able to eradicate one invasive species – a snail – thus far. Over R1-billion is spent on combating invasive species each year and this is why we need to take action to prevent new introductions, and to combat existing alien species,” the department said.

Some of the common plants listed include jacaranda, Brazilian pepper and African Flame trees, guavas, granadillas, kikuyu grass, several types of cactus plants, Indian shot (canna) and sword ferns.

The list contains 14 invasive bird species, including Indian mynahs, Indian house crows, house sparrows, rose-ringed parakeets and Eurasian starlings.

There are 24 reptiles, including rattlesnakes, pythons and certain types of terrapins, chameleons and geckoes and 17 freshwater fish that include trout, carp, bass and perch.

Invasive species are classified into four different categories. Category 1a (including hydrilla, water poppy and yellow water lily) are defined as species that can be brought under control quickly.

Category 1b (including Indian shot, Queen of the Night, pompom weed, chromolaena, pampas grass, water hyacinth, jacaranda, lantana, prickly pear, Kariba weed and Indian mynahs) are deemed to be among the most harmful.

Category 2 (wattles, agaves, guavas, several Eucalyptus and pine species) are those considered to have commercial value and can be grown in demarcated areas.

Category 3 (including loquats, English ivy, Seringa, umbrella pine, African Flame tree and tree tomatoes) are defined as “less harmful” species.

Some plants have been categorised differently in different provinces.

For example, the Brazilian pepper tree is classified as a category 1b “harmful” species in KZN, Eastern Cape, Limpopo and Mpumalanga, but as a category 3 “less harmful” species in the other five provinces.

Jacarandas are classified as category 1b in KZN and three other provinces (but only outside urban areas, where they are exempted from new regulations).

Rainbow and brown trout and some other freshwater fish species have been treated according to a “nuanced approach”, says the department. For example, trout are listed variously in category 2 in some areas such as national parks and mountain catchment areas (and cannot be caught and released in these areas), whereas elsewhere in the country they are not categorised but still cannot be released into dams unless they have been documented there previously.

Responding to queries on how the new regulations could be policed, the deputy director of environmental programmes, Dr Guy Preston, said 30 bio-security officers had been trained last year by the national Department of Environmental Affairs and there were plans to double this capacity this year.

His department also hoped to enlist the help of other national, provincial and local government departments to ensure an effective monitoring and enforcement capacity.

While the regulations provided for a maximum fine of R5m, the department could also issue directives to landowners to control the spread of alien invasions.

“The fines are options to be used, but the sanction must fit the problem,” he said.

The public has 30 days (from February 12) to comment on the draft regulations. - The Mercury



l For full details and the new list of 1 125 invasive or prohibited species, go to Government Gazette No 37320 (Draft Alien and Invasive Species Lists, 2014) also available at: https://www.environment.gov.za/sites/de ... n37320.pdf
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby SABOAMAN » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:28 am

Dr Guy Preston, said 30 bio-security officers had been trained last year by the national Department of Environmental Affairs and there were plans to double this capacity this year.


So only one year of training and now these experts are going to enforce the act on persons with a passion for reptiles and collectively has more years experience than the age group of the enforcers.
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Savu » Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:24 pm

Maybe in a civilized country this could work. Not in a country where certain people slaughter protected species for muti and witchcraft. And its not even a secret,u can easily go to a muti market. No sight of any "trained" officers there!
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Re: National Alien invasive listing

Postby Mick » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:08 pm

All I have to say on this matter is............................................................................................................................................., keep doing what we doing people, what does the government know about anything anyway.
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