Please help guys.....

Please help guys.....

Postby Sgt.Corn » Fri May 09, 2014 3:10 pm

Hi all,

Quick question:

Can i house a number of hatchlings together or should i keep them all seperate?
The reason i ask this is because a really good deal on hatchlings popped up in my area so i want to get like 4 so please any people out there with wisdom on this topic PLEASE HELP!!!.

Thanks in advance,
Sgt.Corn

Snakes in my care: 6
1 Ball Python Male
1 Amelystic Male Corn
1 Oketee het Anery Female Corn
1 Snow Corn
1 Ghost Corn
1 Jaguar Carpet Python Male
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Westley Price » Fri May 09, 2014 3:23 pm

Rather buy four lunchboxes from your local store and just house them separately. You can them always get more permanent housing at a later stage.

It's never a good idea to house snakes together, and hatchlings tend to be more feisty and can easily eat one another from confusion.
"I am dying by inches from not having anybody to talk to about insects." - Charles Darwin
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby stef » Fri May 09, 2014 6:17 pm

What type of snakes?
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Jamster » Fri May 09, 2014 6:23 pm

I totally agree. Four separate containers with one or two lines of heating cable running underneath one end of the containers. Personally I like to use these for hatchlings as they are pretty secure, they cost about 20 bucks each

IMG_2014050926549.jpg
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1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Jamster » Fri May 09, 2014 6:25 pm

It's posted in the corn snakes section.
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby stef » Fri May 09, 2014 6:32 pm

That doesnt say anything. It can be posted under pyhons and boa for all i care it was just to make sure they where not king or milkies
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Jamster » Fri May 09, 2014 6:37 pm

Regardless of wether they are python, milk or king hatchlings, the procedure is still the same. Keep them separate.
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Sgt.Corn » Fri May 09, 2014 7:31 pm

Cool thanks for the replies ill keep 'em seperate.

@ Jamster, this heating cable that you speak of is that the actual name of it if i wanna get it from an electrical store or what, because i cannot keep buying heating pads gonna make me broke....
Sgt.Corn

Snakes in my care: 6
1 Ball Python Male
1 Amelystic Male Corn
1 Oketee het Anery Female Corn
1 Snow Corn
1 Ghost Corn
1 Jaguar Carpet Python Male
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby stef » Fri May 09, 2014 7:35 pm

The problem with forums like the are that every body have a different idea. For me i have been keeping snakes for many years and some species co inhabit quit well thus the reason for my question. I also own and breed tarantulas and some species of T's can also be houses together. It doesn't say that if they do not co inhabit a specific area that in captivity they cant. After all they are in captivity and it is not the same as in the wild.
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Westley Price » Fri May 09, 2014 7:45 pm

Stef, You are entitled to you opinion and you may keep your snakes any way you see fit, but we speak from experience.

Yes, most snakes can be housed together, but it's never a good idea.

I am sure you are thinking about cannibalism (which is a problem, even with Corns), but that is actually the least of your concerns when housing snakes together.

You need to be able to monitor how often snakes shed, eat and poop. When keeping snakes together, that is impossible. And if one snake gets sick and they're housed together, the all get sick.

Why rick it for a few tubs that cost R20 each? Aren't your snakes worth more than that?
"I am dying by inches from not having anybody to talk to about insects." - Charles Darwin
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Savu » Fri May 09, 2014 8:58 pm

The points made by Westley are 100% correct,and especially hatchlings must be kept separately for the mentioned reasons. However it can become a bit tricky when dealing with boids. Theory would still say,do the same. But practically?? A rule of thumb is to have the cage about 2/3 the length of the snake and 1/3 the width.(again,theoretically). Which means if u keep a couple of burms,or retics,and u want to keep them seperate,who'll need big time space and cages. Then again,some big breeders do keep these large snakes seperate,but now in relatively small tubs in a rack system. But what happens now to the thermal gradient,where the snake is supposed to choose between cool and warm end?? I say,try certain things,together,seperate,bigger smaller cage,do what works best for you and what is practical. Nearly every larger snake collection I have seen,especially the larger snakes are kept 2,3 a cage. Yet if somebody would ask them how to keep them ,they will go by the manual and say seperate.
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Jamster » Fri May 09, 2014 9:19 pm

Hatchlings of most snakes will attempt to feed on the same food item and eachother due to the transfer of scent on to the snake during feeding. Retic males have been known to fight viciously with eachother and other snakes in the enclosure. Rather safe than sorry. There are many solutions to keeping snakes separately, escpecially with big snakes. For example cages that appear small from the front but are very deep and wide for less arboreal snakes. The main concerns with housing snakes together are feeding issues and the transfer of disease and infection.

Heating cable can be bought seaparately. Which is essentially exactly what is found in the foil heating pads. Most petshops can order it for you from a supplier. They also have varying wattage levels.
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
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Jamster
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Mellivora » Sun May 11, 2014 3:59 pm

Just a couple of thoughts from an old hand.

DISEASES

If you clean your cages regularly and replace the substrate you should not have problems with diseases.

Just remember to quarantine any new additions and to treat them against mites.

If you feed live rats or mice you may still succeed in introducing these bugs into your cages.

CO-INHABITING - sharing a cage

In nature some snakes actually do stay together in groups - one example being the garter snakes. My sole garter snake is quite happy with his rat snake room mate.

HATCH-LINGS

You can keep hatch-lings of most species together with their own kind but do not attempt to feed them without supervision. Either feed the hatch-lings separately or if you place food into a container with more than one snake remove the others once a snake has taken the food. You could remove the one that has taken the food but if it is its first attempt at eating he may release the food and refuse to eat again. If you leave food in a container with multiple hatch-lings it will sometimes happen that one snake takes the food and a second attempts it from the other side and ends up consuming not only the food but also the other hatch-ling. Personally I just watch and will only interfere when a second snake approaches the one that is busy eating. How-ever this also implies that you must regularly attempt to feed them.

The above does not apply to king snakes and some other species who have cannibalistic traits.

ADULTS

Except for the really big guys like boas etc I keep up to ten snakes per cage but only feed under supervision.
One piece of food at a time and the moment a snake has taken the food he is moved to the "eating" cage.

I find that I can handle up to 3 simultaneously in the eating cage.
Normally when they are busy feeding they will not bother the others but occasionally you might have one that is bothersome and you may have to distract it.
If you do not pay sufficient attention sometimes two snakes may "argue" over a piece of food but a dousing under the cold water tap will soon settle the disagreement.
Once it has consumed the food the snake is moved to the "have eaten" cage.
When all the snakes in one cage has either fed or refused to eat, the ones that have not eaten are also moved to the "have eaten" cage and they are all moved back to their original cage after it has been cleaned.
In this fashion it is easy to handle a fairly large collection with only a couple of spare cages.

The boas are also kept together - they actually share a cage with a yellow anaconda - but are fed separately - simply because it's difficult to separate 2 of these monsters. In this case I remove all but one snake - feed the one in his own cage and once he/she has had enough he/she swops places with the next one. Most snakes will take food easier in the environment that they are used too.
Obviously the snakes must be fed regularly so that they are not hungry enough to consider their mates as food.

I even house and handle my king snakes like above without any bad experiences between the kings.

Another benefit is that when breeding season comes along you need not be worried whether snakes may eat each other because they are not used to being together.

DO NOT PLACE A SNAKE THAT HAS FED BACK IN A CAGE WITH SNAKES THAT HAS NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO FEED AND THAT MAY BE HUNGRY.

Here I must confess that I recently lost a very nice corn but this was my own fault and mainly due to time constraints.

Having only 2 female king snakes, who are both more than old enough to breed, I placed a fairly large corn male with them during the past breeding season. The corn was big enough that neither of the kings would be able to devour it. The kings tend to feed less frequently than the corn. I had to leave home for 4 days and stupidly fed the corn without giving the kings a similar opportunity. Once the corn had eaten I returned him to the cage with the kings where he had been staying for at least 4 months.

On my return I found the corn dead with tooth marks in his head indicating that one of the kings had most likely "smelled" the mouse that the corn had devoured and attacked the corn.

HEATING

As far as heating is concerned I think it is a bit over emphasized. Except for the real tropical stuff room temperature will suffice for most adults - and we stay in a extremely cold area ( we have experienced minus 8 degrees Celsius outside).

Care sheets for common snakes like corns normally prescribe a minimum in the region of 20C but I keep the adults indoors (in the house not in an outbuilding) at room temperature. This also means that I do not have to artificially control heating cycles for breeding purposes.

Hatch-lings and yearlings I over winter in my office which is a small room where I leave an asbestos heater on, at it's lowest setting, during the night. Hatch-lings are kept in 2lt ice cream containers and the bigger ones in 8lt plastic bread boxes that stack nicely.

If you provide excessive heating your snakes will keep on feeding throughout the year which MAY BE detrimental to their health. Note that I do not state this as a fact but as an assumption as it may deviate from their normal eating pattern.

Just as an aside I have actually hatched indigenous snakes on a book shelf in the house. This was not intentionally but I had placed the eggs on a damp kombuis towel in a 2lt sealed ice-cream container (without holes) with the intention of taking them to the local zoo as I had done before. Every now and then when I saw the container I would open it and inspect the eggs just to find that they were still OK. Never got around to taking them to the zoo and one day when I opened the container I was greeted by a 100% successful hatching.

SgtCorn - may you enjoy your hobby till you reach my age and beyond......

PS The preview translates my "k-i-t-c-h-e-n towel" to "kombuis towel"
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Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Sgt.Corn » Sun May 11, 2014 4:53 pm

@ Mellivora, Thanks alot for all the infor really helped alot.

I just finished my own out of head racking system i don't even have that many snakes yet but with it in my room it just gives me the feel to more likely reach my goal.
Again thanks alot.
Sgt.Corn

Snakes in my care: 6
1 Ball Python Male
1 Amelystic Male Corn
1 Oketee het Anery Female Corn
1 Snow Corn
1 Ghost Corn
1 Jaguar Carpet Python Male
User avatar
Sgt.Corn
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Posts: 11
Joined: Sun May 04, 2014 1:03 pm

Re: Please help guys.....

Postby Jamster » Wed May 14, 2014 12:26 pm

Post pics:)
1.0-reticulated python (Ripcord)
1.1-burmese pythons
5.5-brown house snakes
1.0-taiwanese ratsnake
3.8-BCI
1.1-corn snakes
1.2-rhombic skaapstekers
1.0-yellow rat snake
User avatar
Jamster
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Posts: 1215
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:52 pm
Location: Port Elizabeth


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