New baby Bosc, eating issue

[stu01]

Hi All,

Hope someone can give me some advice please. Have recently addeda little baby bosc to our home and I am really worried about him. Have had him since Tuesday and the little guy is not eating which wouldn't be such a concern as I know he is probably very stressed but he seems to be dropping weight drastically. Was fat and healthy looking Tuesday, by today his legs are looking scrawny and his back bone is showing. I am very very worried about him.

Tank - Regular wood with glass slide doors on front large tank (about 6ft)

Substrate - play sand mixed with potting soil about 7cm deep. Have a large rock(with a hidey ledge at bottom) under basking light with another 2 smaller rocks. 3 very large logs (1 more twiggy)

Heating and Lights - large heat mat at bottom of substrate. Heat light 50watt. Current temp at 29 degrees (with all lights on!!!). Basking light (150watt). Did have a 50watt but had to swap with another tank as this cold weather doesn't get temps up!

Have put 4 crickets and 6 mealworms in last night and have just taken them all out now. (Crickets were having a ball thinking they were in a huge cricket heaven). Also worried about crickets getting hungry and biting him, they walk right over him and he shows not a bit on interest!! Have now put half a boiled egg in with him in a dish and keep sneaking round corners every 20mins to see if he has eaten anything but nada!!

Couple of issues that I know are contributing is a.) I am really battling with the temps. Fine with all lights but as soon as the basking light is turned off it drops to 22 and below. B.) I am trying not to touch him at all but he has changed tanks from the first night and I need to get in and clean and change water. Also am so worried he has given up the fight as he looks really lethagic (legs buckled under him) and sleeping constantly.

Any advise really appreciated.

Thx
Stuart

[Leon_Kun]

This might sound random, but try feeding him a pinky in a smaller container that's heated up under the basking light.
The pinky will fatten him up a bit at least.
Don't worry it won't be to big for the monitor.

[stu01]

Thanks Leon, I am so worried about the little guy. I usually only feed frozen thawed, will this be fine or would you say live would be better to pique his interest. How long would you suggest I leave them in the feeding container for under the light?

Thx
Stuart

[Fooble]

That cage sounds WAAY too big for a tiny Bosc.
Those temps also need to be much higher.

Do yourself a favour reduce the cage size(even just temporary).

Think about it this way if you were a tiny lizard and were put in a huge environment you would be stressed out to the nth degree.
If your animal is non stressed and temps are right it will eat and thrive (providing you didn't receive a sick animal)
Offer it live prey leave a few pinks/fuzzies in it's cage in an empty bowl or container.
Also try leaving one in a hide he inhabits often.

Sounds like its in serious need try contact the guy you bought it from asap.

[stu01]

Thanks Foobie. I did think it was large but was advised to get a cage to grow into. I will get him into a new cage tomorrow am first thing. I also feel with a smaller cage temps will be easier to control. It is so cold here atm it is ridiculous, even have halogen heaters on in the snake room just to take the chill out the air. Have spoken with the guy I got him from daily and he says if I haven't gotten him to eat by tomorrow I need to get him back so he can try get him eating again. Would prefer not to move him again and cause him even more stress so going to give it till 2pm tomorrow. Second thoughts going to bastardise a tank now and put it inside his current "mansion" to try retain some heat immediately. Will update! Don't have live prey at hand, do you think leaving a frozen thawed with him overnight would be alright?

[Fooble]

A frozen prey item doesn't move of course so may not trigger the feeding response live may help.
Why don't you try section off your cage therefor you can just remove the partition when you need see if it works.
BUt yes smaller cage easier to maintain the temps.

Let us know how it goes.

[Leon_Kun]

Yeah as fooble said.
Live prey is better, as they do offer more appeal.
The smaller enclosure is better for temp gradients and might be easier to regulate the way you want it.
As for the smaller tupperware as soon as it reaches about 28 degrees it will be fine for feeding, and mist lightly it shouldn't take longer then 5 min for it to start feeding but at max leave it for 15 min if it doesn't take it immediately try every two to three hours.
Personally I don't like sand and stuff as substrate for smaller lizards as it can cause compaction and also stop them from feeding until they discharge properly (a nice soak loosens up the tummy a bit). News paper should also do fine until it reaches a bit higher age.

[Kevin Lancaster]

I got a baby Bosc at the Expo some weeks ago. He was happily eating his crickets util this cold snap hit. I switched him to new born pinks and he has had no problem at all, taking one evry second day. He is off the crickets completely and shows no interest in them at all. I will be getting some Dubia Roaches today to see if they interest him above the crickets, as he needs some variety in his diet. Will let you know if they work for him.

[stu01]

Thanks guys. I have put a smaller tank (very small fish tank about 35x25x30. I have wraped the glass sides in newspaper so he feels secure and not on display) inside his HUGE tank and under the lights. It has a little hide in as well that has a tree type effect on top so can offer shade in the heat. This morning when I put the basking light on temps are up to 38 and he is much happier, has been moving about and has taken a drink of water. Frozen thawed he showed no interest in last night (couple of tongue flicks) then nothing. So getting a live pinky this am and going to see that. I think he has eaten a cricket as one is missing from the tank. Of course I could just be hoping really hard and it has escaped into the big wilderness tank. Kevin, let me know if it work please, this cold is crazy, we are on the plots on the east rand so even colder, outside was full white this morning with frost.

[PTG]

You must also remember that these little guys will only eat if conditions are just right. I know it may seem cruel to keep a Bosch in a tub but he/she will thrive in a dark warm environment even it its just for a few months. Another mistake I made with mine is when I did try frozen/ thawed they weren't hot enough. I took my mice and rats straight out the freezer and let them sit for 20 minutes in hot water. I then drained the old water and just before feeding soaked them for about a minute in fresh hot water. This helps when the monitor is close to the prey item and IMHO gets them to take a bite.

Make it your missin to keep those temperatures optimum and really think about setting up a smaller tub for him. A plastic tub is 100x better than a Glass fish tank in every way. Also if you havent already get yourself a good thermostat for the basking/ hot side. Those temperature are just so crucial to illicit a bosch's feeding.

Post some pics : )

Good Luck!

[stu01]

Okay, temps on basking rock now 44.5 degrees and on the cooler side about 36 degrees. He seems happier and have put out a live pinky which bloody died!!! He didn't show too much interest in the pinky but he is now in his hide (which is a first!!) and he comes out now and then to have a walk about. Has taken water now twice I have seen and when he comes out lays in the basking position.

I am swapping the 150 watt bulb out now for a 50 watt bulb as i think that temp is just a bit too high.

This is Boris (when I got him on Tuesday)



This is his cage that he has



This is what I did last night



How it sits in the cage now



And covered in newspaper

[Fooble]

Make sure it doesn't get too hot in that small section as it won't be able to thermoregulate.

[Kevin Lancaster]

@stu01 - I tried my guy on a Dubia a few minutes ago. He showed a lot of interest but didn't bite. He's quite active and maybe still digesting the pink he had yesterday. Will keep you informed.

Peace

[stu01]

Well, temps are now perfect, humidity is just right. This morning he was behaving more monitorish, slept in his hide and came out when the lights came on and sunned himself on his basking rock. He seems a lot more settled and secure now. He even chased crickets around the tank snapping at them (although didn't manage to catch one :-( ) but I believe all is perfect for him now and alli can do is wait for him to do the rest now. Have also been consulting with a reptile vet and if we still have problems next week will check for bacteria or underlying ailments although I firmly believe it was his setup and stress.

Thanks for the excellent advise and ideas everyone, the help has been great. Kevin, will defo source some Dubais as he is showing interest in food (still not pinkys though) and a variation to get him going is defo the answer. Am pleased he gave chase as I really thought he had gone past the point of hunger where their bodies stop secreting the "hunger" need.

Will keep all updated.

[uncutdiamonds]

Well, temps are now perfect, humidity is just right. This morning he was behaving more monitorish, slept in his hide and came out when the lights came on and sunned himself on his basking rock. He seems a lot more settled and secure now. He even chased crickets around the tank snapping at them (although didn't manage to catch one :-( ) but I believe all is perfect for him now and alli can do is wait for him to do the rest now. Have also been consulting with a reptile vet and if we still have problems next week will check for bacteria or underlying ailments although I firmly believe it was his setup and stress. ....

I was just wondering what would be the decisive factor for him (not) eating.
But I first thought that in the winterish weather the temp. conditions may have been right. The stress due to change could be a valid reason.